Big Bikes tame the Bull

[traveltoad]

Via email, concerns have been raised about the photos/captions in this thread. Rather than reply to the email, I figured I would post here for the forum to see and review. I am doing this openly as I feel that it can be a learning opportunity for me and maybe for others here as well. I have no problem admitting wrong if that is what comes of it.

The first concern is regarding my "Double secret single track on the way to John Bull" being an illegal trail. This concern was raised as "There are not any single tracks anywhere near John Bull" (quoted from the email). I feel the caption is correct; it was a trail on the way to John Bull. It was a while before we arrived at John Bull, I cannot say exactly where the trail is located as I do not know. As to the legality of the trail... to be honest I do not know. It was a very well established and well used trail. At a brief rider meeting the person leading this section indicated that we would "take a couple legal single track bypasses". So he felt the trail was legal. If I was to arrive at this same single track again, not knowing the area, based on the trails open entrance and how well used it is I would feel confident that I was on a legal trail. That said. If people are still concerned about it's legality I will look through my GPS log and see if I can figure out exactly where it is and provide that information for review. I did not intend to cause a stir with a little literary license in the caption, but I also do not know why someone would assume that the trail is illegal?


The second concern is a bit more troubling to me. Mostly because in thinking back on the ride, I feel that while I had the best intentions at the time... and I am still not sure that I would do it any differently... I still may be in the wrong. The concern was raised about riding around the downed tree and creating a bypass. Because I am still conflicted as to whether I was in the wrong, I will describe the situation and perhaps we can discuss it.

There was a freshly fallen tree across the trail. I guess the only way to know 100% that no wrong was done would have been to turn around and go back. Maybe that is indeed what we should have done. At the scene, knowing where we needed to go to meet another group and the time of day, turning around did not seem to be a viable option. Notice the emphasis on "seem". I was the third bike at the tree, the first two had already gone around and the others were still a bit behind. I followed the tracks of the first two bikes. Our track was immediately around the tree, in the area already disturbed by the fallen tree. There was an easier but longer route around which was not taken. When I arrived at the tree I did look at the track and felt that it was of minimum impact to the already disturbed (by the fallen tree) area, we went right around the stump which was right against, if not partly in the trail. I don't think I was more than half a vehicle width away from the main trail... not much, if any, more than a 4x4 moving to the side to allow another 4x4 to pass. I will admit, I did not get off the bike and walk the area.

I did find out later, that one of the other riders behind me wanted to try the "easier" route which took a longer path around the tree. I found out about this later (I was ahead at this time)... and also found out that someone had already talked to him about creating a bypass and increasing trail damage. I mention this to show that the group was conscious of the ill effects of a bypass.

So... there it is for all to see. I know that turning around would have been the only 100% correct decision. I know that my (the group's) decision put us in a "grey area". Was it worse than that? I guess time and discussion will tell.

[traveltoad]

I should add...

I am very interested to know a better way to have handled the tree situation (or to find out that I did an ok job). While I am am a long time dual sport motorcyclist, this new bike is allowing me to get further off the beaten track. Things like this will happen more often now... I want to be able to tell the story and post the photos knowing that I have handled the situation in the best possible way.

[Old Fart]

Good afternoon.

After spending a very pleasant 20 minutes or so on the phone with Aaron, we both felt the best way to address some of the questions would be for me to introduce myself and address some of the issues raised here.

My name is Jeff McRae, I am the Adopt-a-Trail Coordinator for the Big Bear area in the San Bernardino National Forest Adopt-a-Trail Program, as well as the Training Coordinator/Instructor for the SBNFA OHV Volunteer Program.

First off, I'd like to applaud Aaron's general concern that he/you may have done something wrong. Looking at the pictures and descriptions, I'm not seeing anything major, and depending on camera angles - maybe nothing at all. First let's look at the tree issue.

When something (tree, rocks, slide) winds up blocking a trail or road, the first thought almost all of the people have is "go around". This is legal provided you can still stay on the trail - as soon as you start going around trees on the side or cutting new trails - that's a problem. I only saw one or two photos which MAY have shown this - but again, it could be camera angle. I can tell you that you'd have almost certainly been off the trail in a full sized 4x4, or UTV, and probably an ATV as well.

As far as the legality of the "secret" trail, I'd like to explain DVR (Designated Vehicle Route). SBNF, like virtually all National Forests doesn't allow any "off road" use - vehicles are restricted to Designated Vehicle Routes - which are signed. I'm sure you've all seen them - brown signs, about 8x10 or so - with the Trail/Road number, name, and the icons for vehicle types with either a "difficulty rating" or a slash indicating "no vehicles of that type" The 24" and 50" trails will all have a "W" or "E" in the Trail number (2W01. So basically, if you passed a Forest Service DVR sign on the "secret single track" that wasn't slashed for motorcycles (which would only apply to green sticker - not dual sports), you were on a legal trail. If no sign, you weren't.

I will be writing the Road Maintenance Plan for 3N10 THIS WEEKEND - so your timing on this is just about perfect

If anyone has any questions, please let me know.

[traveltoad]

Thank you for your time on the phone Jeff and for taking the time to post an explanation.

[Old Fart]

No Aaron - thank YOU for being concerned enough to express doubt about where you'd been - as I mentioned on the phone, that attitude is by far the exception rather than the rule when I'm made aware of issues in the Forest.

If anyone ever has a question, or sees a trail issue in the forest that needs attention, please let me know.

[OLLIE]

KNowing Aaron I have no boubt that he did not do anything out of spite. I'm sure that he had the right intentions in mind doing what he did. Not having been there and knowing him, I would make a positive assumption that he absolutely used his best judgement.

These are the types of conversations I like to see on the boards. True cause and effect of us being on the trail doing what we love to do and still protecting the environment as so many non-believers think we are out there just trying to destroy stuff. I can't wait to see this discussion develop.

I do have a question that I venture to guess Jeff would have the answer to. I have seen where offroaders have come into situations like fallen trees across a path and took it upon themselves to use their winches or resources to clear the fallen tree or object. When I have seen it done, it was done in a manner that didn't harm adjacent trees and the vehicle never left the trail. Is this an OK practice or should the proper authorities be contacted to clear the obstacle? On a day run I can see where turning around and contacting someone might be the best course of action. But on a longer journey maybe the situation warrants the object moved. What are your opinions on this???

[traveltoad]

I do have a question that I venture to guess Jeff would have the answer to. I have seen where offroaders have come into situations like fallen trees across a path and took it upon themselves to use their winches or resources to clear the fallen tree or object. When I have seen it done, it was done in a manner that didn't harm adjacent trees and the vehicle never left the trail. Is this an OK practice or should the proper authorities be contacted to clear the obstacle? On a day run I can see where turning around and contacting someone might be the best course of action. But on a longer journey maybe the situation warrants the object moved. What are your opinions on this???

Jeff should be the one to answer this, but one point that was brought up in my phone conversation with Jeff: Removing an object from the trail does pose a unique set of dangers. If you do not have the knowledge base to handle those dangers it may be better to turn around.

[Old Fart]

Aaron hit the nail on the head. Unless it's something fairly easy (like dragging brush across a burned in illegal trail spur), we'd rather that you turned it in to USFS for "fixing". You need to be real careful of which way things that you move can go - we had a situation in San Jacinto a few years back where some folks (who had the best intentions) rolled a large rock off the trail - and almost hit some folks on the trail below.

When in doubt, always take the safe approach.

[Old Fart]

Here's a few links that might prove helpful
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/conditions/
(will tell you what areas are closed)

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/d ... gpines.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/d ... sflats.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/d ... acinto.pdf

OHV maps showing the road/trail system, "difficulty rating" and vehicle restrictions

[OLLIE]

That certainly makes sense. Thanks for the reply and the links to those information sites.