Nebraska

[ssc]

Scott,

The riots are a great example of why law abiding citizens should be allowed to partake in the instant check. That day was quite interesting.

Regards, Steve

[unwiredadventures]

The riots are a great example of why law abiding citizens should be allowed to partake in the instant check. That day was quite interesting.

I remember that day vividly. It was the day we closed escrow on our house in Pasadena. My wife (not a big fan of guns at the time) was very happy that we were prepared that day. The apartment where we lived at the time was in an area where a car was burned in front of our building and businesses were looted less than a 1,000 feet away.

That day was interesting also, in that several friends of mine that did not like guns at the time, had a change of heart on the issue.

I hope that I'll never need to use a firearm in self defense. I do feel safer with them.

[ssc]

The riots demonstrate that having weapons and ammo to protect your loved ones is a reasonable and rational decision. I tend to cringe when people make negative comments about those who make this choice. They look at us as paronoid or worse. I tend to think they refuse to look at the world as a realist, but that is their choice. The police were not able to help many people and self reliance was called for on those terrible days.

The study of history makes it crystal clear to me that it is a wise choice. I respect others choices to not keep weapons, I just wish they would respect my choice to keep them.

Regards, Steve

[gon2srf]

http://www.videosift.com/video/Largest- ... n-pakistan

This ain't Nebraska but I'm sure you would approve Ollie.

[cruiserlarry]

The riots demonstrate that having weapons and ammo to protect your loved ones is a reasonable and rational decision. I tend to cringe when people make negative comments about those who make this choice. They look at us as paronoid or worse. I tend to think they refuse to look at the world as a realist, but that is their choice. The police were not able to help many people and self reliance was called for on those terrible days.

The study of history makes it crystal clear to me that it is a wise choice. I respect others choices to not keep weapons, I just wish they would respect my choice to keep them.

Regards, Steve

I respect your choice - just not the rationalization.

The riots ? Well, how many riots have you been involved with in your lifetime ? One. Civil wars ? None. Foreign attacks on your community ? None. A realist, or one who reviews the history of this area, will find virtually no instances where lethal force is necessary to defend oneself on a large scale. That the L.A. riots, which affected mostly areas of a mostly low income and gang-infested segment of the city, was a rare event. Given that the looting involved mostly gang members attacking businesses in their own community is a shame. There was no problem in virtually all outlying area of this city. Ironically, I was less than 1/2 mile from the epicenter of that riot near Florence when it erupted, and spent a nervous time working my way out of that area to safety - gun-free. Was I lucky? -absolutely.
The majority of damage and destruction was the result of fire, not gunfire. Did I feel a need to go home and arm myself from future riots ? No. I understand you are not paranoid because you want the right to defend yourself, and I'm OK with your choice - but it's not a realist who is concerned about the possibility of future unrest, considering how rare an occurrence it is in our area of the country.

Just in case, I'll keep you on speed-dial, Steve

[DaveK]

The riots demonstrate that having weapons and ammo to protect your loved ones is a reasonable and rational decision. I tend to cringe when people make negative comments about those who make this choice. They look at us as paronoid or worse. I tend to think they refuse to look at the world as a realist, but that is their choice. The police were not able to help many people and self reliance was called for on those terrible days.

The study of history makes it crystal clear to me that it is a wise choice. I respect others choices to not keep weapons, I just wish they would respect my choice to keep them.

Regards, Steve

I respect your choice - just not the rationalization.

The riots ? Well, how many riots have you been involved with in your lifetime ? One. Civil wars ? None. Foreign attacks on your community ? None. A realist, or one who reviews the history of this area, will find virtually no instances where lethal force is necessary to defend oneself on a large scale. That the L.A. riots, which affected mostly areas of a mostly low income and gang-infested segment of the city, was a rare event. Given that the looting involved mostly gang members attacking businesses in their own community is a shame. There was no problem in virtually all outlying area of this city. Ironically, I was less than 1/2 mile from the epicenter of that riot near Florence when it erupted, and spent a nervous time working my way out of that area to safety - gun-free. Was I lucky? -absolutely.
The majority of damage and destruction was the result of fire, not gunfire. Did I feel a need to go home and arm myself from future riots ? No. I understand you are not paranoid because you want the right to defend yourself, and I'm OK with your choice - but it's not a realist who is concerned about the possibility of future unrest, considering how rare an occurrence it is in our area of the country.

Just in case, I'll keep you on speed-dial, Steve

Larry:

This logic flies in the face of everything we teach here at OAUSA. One of the golden rules that we live by is "to be prepared". If you use a life saving device that you carry in your truck only once, it was a wise idea to "be prepared". We never use most of the stuff we carry in our first aid kits but we still carry it. You believe in and carry the Spot but you have never pushed the 911 button.

The fact that we may only have one exposure to a riot is reason enough to "be prepared". With possible lives at stake, you are foolish to not take precautions. AND we would be irresponsible to suggest that you should hit the trail and only bring things that you know for sure you will need.

Additionally, using your logic, that the riots were mostly an inner city problem, then it would follow that inner city residents should be most heavily armed. Sadly, the laws that allow firearms are just the opposite. More restrictions exist in the heavily populated areas than the rural areas. This is the insanity of the current scheme of gun laws.

[ssc]

Larry,
Dave has covered certain relevant points. I am in complete agreement with his statements. How many riots? Lets count them, Watts, East LA, New York--remember the brown outs, Phi, LA--remember Katrina. New York park central has had a few. Therefore we need to be prepared for riots and/or natural disasters. Isn't that a major use of the ham radio?

Your info on the last riot is very limited and wrong. According to friends with the LAPD, there were many good areas victimized. Doors kicked in and people robbed, raped and murdered. Didn't hear about that did you? We had rioting out here in the Inland Empire, bet you didn't hear about that. How about the mob who were coming to the superior court in Pomona? So yes, we need to be realists. Foreign Attacks on our soil!!! Have we forgot about 9-11, Pearl Harbor, Goleta, Okla City etc.

A realist is concerned about events. I was saying before the riots that just a small spark was all that was needed for there to be riots in the streets. I am sure you would have not agreed with me before the riots.

Study history--look at recent European history. Remember the 30's and 40's--modern civilization. You know what happened. Have you studied this time? How many holocaust survivors have you spoken too? How many books written by them have you read? The same theme prevails--"we never thought it would or could happen. When people were warning us we thought they were crying wolf." The same mindset prevails today today--it will never happen--etc. You may be right and I hope it never happens. I hope we never need to pick up arms due to a riot or a natural disaster or attack by a foreign group or due to our own gov't. But do I think I should be prepared---Yes!

Larry, I have been to a death camp in Germany. I have spoken to survivors, I have seen the pictures and the memos and the carnage and the inhumanity and the world turned upside down. It leaves a lasting impression. They never thought it would happen. They didn't live in some third world country!! But it did!! Can it happen again? Yes, anything is possible, though highly doubtful.

So yes, I am a realist. Bad things happen to good people. It comes down to, " be prepared." You prepare your way and I my way.

Regards, Steve

[OU812]

I really like the argument: If it saves one life then it was all worth it.
I wheel with a guy named Ryan form MJR and he is an EMT. He carries a lot of gear that I am sure he hopes he never has to use. Gear that is harder to pack, more expensive, and less convenient than caring a fire arm. But if it saves one person’s life because he had it and knew how to use it, it will be worth all the trouble and sacrifice it took to carry it all those days it wasn't used.

[cruiserlarry]

Steve -

It seems you may have veered way off topic - at no time have I ever said you should not be prepared for disasters; and all of my remarks were relative to our immediate area and time - hard to prepare for Pearl Harbor now, let alone brown outs in PA. As a realist, I am concerned about events - one reason I made the comment that started this debacle; but I do not see how that relates to this discussion. Certainly the majority of folks who have survived disasters around the world were unarmed.

I was involved with the Sheriff's dept after the riots, and my entire neighborhood is made up of officers who were on duty for the riot, along with fireman, EMTs. etc... so I stand by my info.

Regarding the riots - you were not involved in the Watts riots or any in other areas of the country while residing here; heck, there are tsunamis in Indonesia, but I'm not stockpiling boats - but I am prepared for floods or mud slides. My discussion was specific to the immediate area in which we live, and within the time we are here. And there was nothing about 9/11, or Oklahoma City that being armed at home would haved prevented or helped.

And Pearl Harbor ? Come on, that was my point about being a realist - these events are completely unrelated to collecting a personal militia in your home now, or this discussion in general..

My relatives were in the death camps, so please avoid a pretense of having in depth knowledge of the effects of that situation on the lives of the surviving families - I lived with the stories for the large part of my life; There was nothing an armed Jew or target of the Nazi regime could have done to remedy that situation. That was a failure of the populace to stand up, politically, for what was right, long before the death camps came to be. Hitler did not use weapons to acquire his power - he used fear and the gradual restriction of civil rights to create the environment that led to Nazi Germany - sound like a familiar scenario ?

And was never a doubt in my mind that you would agree 100% with Dave's posts; or that you would disagree 100% with mine...

It just occurred to me I'm still discussing this - maybe I'm not a realist

[OU812]

Pardon me for inviting myself into this conversation. But as a realist/gun owner I am not nearly as worried about foreign threats as I am domestic. Home invasions absolutely do happen, and in your city. Police response time in my neighborhood is two minutes. But that does not account for the time it takes for you to get to your phone an convey to the 911 operator that you are in need of protection. I cant even guess at the police response time is in the middle of the desert. Because not only do you have to make the operator understand that you need someone to come out to protect you and your family, you also have to make her understand where you are. In many cases you might have to call out a mayday on the Ham and pass along information that you can hope will lead police to you. And all this has to happen before the person you need protection from harms you and your family.