Outdoor Adventure USA

They said I only needed them for reading.

I think these rules are waaay overdue. They seem to be primarily focused on Glamis/Dumont calamity crew.
I'll take BLM oversight in any case as opposed to the NPS or NFS.
I'll cite the changes and adverse affects not only on people rights, but on the local environment itself once oversight of the Mojave Preserve was handed to the NPS.......ex-Superintendent Mary Martin.......Buffoon!
She abruptly ended a hundred year history of ranching in the area with no remediation plan. Fuel loads skyrocketed and one lightning strike melted nearly half of her precious "park". Before that, she was busy killing wildlife by removing guzzlers and wells that had existed for decades. Stating that the wildlife would soon reach stasis by reverting back to using traditional watering places (springs, seeps), she hadn't figured in that the nearby communities (primarily Newberry Springs) had pulled so much from local aquifers that these tradiional sources no longer flowed as before.....Massive die-offs resulted!
After the Hackberry fire she was summarily dismissed.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a guzzler?

BlueFJ wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but what is a guzzler?

It captures rain water for wildlife and/or livestock.

Ah, gotcha! I've seen 'em. Didn't know what they were called, though. Thanks!

xtatik wrote:I think these rules are waaay overdue. They seem to be primarily focused on Glamis/Dumont calamity crew.
I'll take BLM oversight in any case as opposed to the NPS or NFS.
I'll cite the changes and adverse affects not only on people rights, but on the local environment itself once oversight of the Mojave Preserve was handed to the NPS.......ex-Superintendent Mary Martin.......Buffoon!
She abruptly ended a hundred year history of ranching in the area with no remediation plan. Fuel loads skyrocketed and one lightning strike melted nearly half of her precious "park". Before that, she was busy killing wildlife by removing guzzlers and wells that had existed for decades. Stating that the wildlife would soon reach stasis by reverting back to using traditional watering places (springs, seeps), she hadn't figured in that the nearby communities (primarily Newberry Springs) had pulled so much from local aquifers that these tradiional sources no longer flowed as before.....Massive die-offs resulted!
After the Hackberry fire she was summarily dismissed.

There is nothing that the BLM is doing here that is way overdue. There is not a single rule in this mess that is not currently covered by an existing law. This is just another example of multiple layers of laws, all covering the same problems (or imagined problems), which will ultimately prove no more effective than the laws that they are not enforcing now. How many laws do we need that make it illegal to litter. How ridiculous is it to turn someone into a criminal for the mere possession of a glass beverage container.

I agree that I would rather have the BLM managing any area over the NPS, but, to say that an ill-advised set of rules from one Federal Agency is better than a set from another Federal agency, is not saying much. Like most of these (presumably) well intentioned laws, they throw the baby out with the bath water. A good example is the following:

It is prohibited to place into the ground any non-flexible object, such as, but not limited to, metal or wood stakes, poles, or pipes, with the exception of small tent or awning stakes, at all developed sites and areas and all ORV open areas.

If you can get past the initial "WTF does this mean" impression, you are left with the following.

1. Since you are only allowed to put "small tent or awning stakes" into the ground, I wonder just what is a small tent stake and who makes that determination?

2. Would the large metal stakes we used to anchor our Field Day antennas be illegal? They were certainly not small tent stakes!

3. What is "non flexible". Everything is flexible, to one degree or another.

4. Would the long metal rods you used to ground the Ham radios be illegal? They were not tent or awning stakes and they certainly were not small.

Guess who gets to interpret this mess - the officer on the beat. And if you get cited for any of these alleged violations, then the judge gets to interpret it -IN FEDERAL COURT.

I have no idea what these new rules are intended to cover, but if you are right, that they are meant to address problems at Glasmis, then there is no reason why everyone else should suffer from another set of poorly and inartfully drafted rules.

This theory, that more rules mean fewer problems, is endemic to our government and is one it's most dangerous habits.

I don't think its an imaginary or exaggerated problem that there is glass and nails all over the place where people camp. I also don't think rules like this will change anything for the better. I don't have a solution either.

Dave,
It's true there are laws against littering, but I don't think they've erred by being more specific. Again, all that has been written here are some specifics regarding recreation in and adjacent to the dune recreation areas. Most of the rules here are designed to protect people and property and are not purely "environmentalist driven". Broken glass, nails, and stakes in the sand are hard on tires, fallen riders and bare feet. Many in that particular offroad community have discouraged others in their ranks from burning pallets and having glass containers for years. But without it being specifically illegal they had no grounds (no teeth) to push the issue. I would bet that many of these rules were co-written by responsible members of the ORV community (ISDRA) that recreate at the dunes, if not, they are in favor of them.
The BLM doesn't have the resources to police or enforce the broader current laws as we'd all like and rely on many recreation groups to self-police themselves, such is the case at Glamis and Dumont. Without specifying conduct for these areas in particular, it makes it harder for volunteers in that ORV community to self-police itself. Now that they have specific gudelines (laws) they can keep each other in accord.
The BLM officers are going to have to use their discretion as peace officers will in any case. I doubt seriously I would be cited for driving a ground stake in order to set up a radio station elsewhere in the desert. But, the the idea of driving one into the sand at one of these places doesn't sound like a good idea to me either. Things are too easily swallowed and lost to the sand, and often only reveal themselves by gashing a tire or flesh later.

The idea that somehow this is over-legislating and over-regulating is a moot point - there is not enough enforcement of any of the regulations.

To say that this is duplicate legislation is missing the point - it is making the regulations more specific for certain areas under certain jurisdiction. This type of "layered" laws are prevalent in all areas of the legal arena, and are hardly redundant - we all know murder is illegal, yet there are all different laws specifying different circumstances that can lead to different punishments, and these laws vary depending on the region the crime is committed. Most laws also allow room for police or prosecutorial descretion.

Until a federal code for all criminal activities nationwide is created (read - never, thanks to the egos of states requiring self-determination for everything), we will always have some layering and redundancy in the laws and their application.

While I can understand the theoretical "uproar", it really is much ado about nothing in reality, IMO. Let's see how these new regulations affect things before deciding that they are all for naught. If the initial regulations were being effectively obeyed, ther would be no additional regulations proposed or instituted.

Will these additional regulations help - personally, I don't think so, unless additional manpower is provided to enforce them. Is that a reason, by itself, to say these additional regulations are unnecessary? Not IMO.

Found some interesting dialogue regarding some of these issues on the ASA site and forums.
http://www.americansandassociation.org/ ... b6aab0213c
http://www.americansandassociation.org/ ... fe352aa87d