Outdoor Adventure USA

Great pictures!

That's been one of my favorite areas to visit. Your write up makes me anxious to go up there again.

Great report and fantastic pictures! Looks like a fun time. There are so many areas up there I want to explore. Thanks for adding to my list!

shuly wrote:I will never lead a 'formal' trip. Too many headaches...I am going to summerfest and I am amazed at the ridiculousness of the whole checking drivers licenses, insurance, vehicle inspections....on and on...way too much BS. What ever happened to personal responsibility... Next thing organized trips are going to require is a signed permission slip from everyone's parents.

Ok enough ranting...

Shuly, I'm a little surprised at your reaction to precautionary measures EVERY formal trail group takes prior to a public event. So, since you are new here, and for the benefit of anyone else reading your post, I felt the need to respond.

While you might be willing to take on the responsibility of the financial security and functional ability of anyone who goes along on an "informal" run you lead, as an LLC, OAUSA cannot afford that risk. Insurance carriers require the knowledge and consent of participants for the event they are involved in to provide coverage, and common sense dictates that simple mechanical / functional problems can be avoided, especially in large groups, when all vehicles meet the minimum standards set by the CA4WD for the safety of it's membership. Rather than considering it a hassle, I think it's the least we can do to try to insure as safe and trouble-free an experience as possible for those who participate. Realistically, the inspection and forms take up less than 10 minutes of your time, and help make sure everyone is on the same page with what is expected of them, and of OAUSA.

Keep in mind that just because you call a run "informal", if you organize it, and lead it, you might be held responsible for anything that occurs during it's tenure, whether you are a responsible person (as I know you are) or not. This could have daunting financial effects on an individual, or a club. And yes, if a participant is under 18, we will require his/ her parents to sign the consent form.

I'm sorry you find theSse formalities to be "ridiculous"; OAUSA, and I, personally, feel they are for the safety and security of our members, and the long term survival of OAUSA, I feel it's a very small sacrifice of time and effort.

I hope to see you in Big Bear, signing the forms, having your vehicle inspected, and helping on the radios for Field Day, as well as passing the Extra license test...

End of rant retort...

Larry...hence my comment about personal responsibility. Too many lawyers and people suing each other. Why in the heck would I sue OA for something that happens on a trail? That doesn't make sense. I mean heck why is it "their" fault. The only way I could see that happening is if an owner of the board decided to ram my truck on purpose and force me to roll down a hill intentionally. But even then...if I survived (better hope I don't cuz I'll be ticked ) I would go after the idiot that was trying to kill me, not OA. I guess problems must have happened before or I imagine OA wouldn't go through what I still feel to be ridiculous stuff.

I am disappointed that this 'precautionary' way of handling trail runs is the norm for OA. I really thought that this would be a nice 3day trip good for most stock rigs...heck even 2wd with some help. Jon and I talked quite a bit about maybe me trying to put something together. But since it appears that there MUST be a few people on this board that are sue happy I certainly won't be organizing it on OA.

Thankfully everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine isn't going to change anytime soon.

How about a positive note...you made no comments on the photos of the trip?

shuly wrote: I guess problems must have happened before or I imagine OA wouldn't go through what I still feel to be ridiculous stuff.

It happens all the time - but, fortunately, it has never happened to OAUSA .

shuly wrote:I am disappointed that this 'precautionary' way of handling trail runs is the norm for OA. I really thought that this would be a nice 3day trip good for most stock rigs...heck even 2wd with some help. Jon and I talked quite a bit about maybe me trying to put something together. But since it appears that there MUST be a few people on this board that are sue happy I certainly won't be organizing it on OA.

Thankfully everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine isn't going to change anytime soon.

I just think you missed my point.

I am certainly not trying to discourage your participation here. And I agree with you, if this was a perfect world. But there is a big difference between posting a run up on the board, and running an event for potentially hundreds of folks under a corporate banner. Personal responsibility just cannot control the actions of others.

The forms are not the "norm" for OAUSA - it is the norm everywhere that stages events. If you've used a charge card, attended a concert, gone to a sports game, bought a ticket to a movie, heck, even parked your car in a lot, you've agreed to terms limiting liability and regulating your behavior. Any organization has a corporate responsibility to it's members, and itself, to insure personal responsibility. It is foolish, IMHO, to just expect that everyone is responsible - just look at the newspaper every day. Doesn't matter the subject. If everyone was responsible, there would be no regulations, laws or lawyers needed. But this is the real world, and all legit groups that carry insurance (I assume you are insured - and you signed documents for that), and/or deal with inherently risky activities require folks to "promise" personal responsibility. It allows everyone participating sto know what is OK, and what is not OK, to avoid issues and friction at the event. That's what the forms are for.

You are welcome to organize trail runs anywhere you like, including here at OAUSA (and I hope you will), but you are assuming risk, opinion or not. OAUSA has never had any incident of any type, we have no "sue-happy" members that I'm aware of, and we hope it will stay that way. But it is ignorant to believe that nothing could ever occur - and it only takes one bad apple to ruin the pie.

I feel a sense of personal responsibility, just as you do - and that is why I will not risk my family, business, home, or those of my fellow members, on the assumption folks I may not know and cannot control will be "responsible"...and I do not feel that is "ridiculousness"

shuly wrote:How about a positive note...you made no comments on the photos of the trip?

The pics are awesome - I wish I was there, and I will be looking forward to joining you on future runs you organize - with or without paperwork.

Now you've got me hooked - where were you and Jon thinking of setting up a trip to ?

cruiserlarry wrote:
The pics are awesome - I wish I was there, and I will be looking forward to joining you on future runs you organize - with or without paperwork.

Now you've got me hooked - where were you and Jon thinking of setting up a trip to ?

It is a shame the world the way it is...I think we can both agree on that. Well for any of my trips I'll be sticking to 120 for planning those. You are welcome to join and for my trips it is w/o paperwork. I hate paperwork...and I am an engineer!

I was thinking of repeating this very run. It would be easy enough for people that could do 3 day weekends to come up on Friday and camp in Lone Pine/Alabama Hills. For those that couldn't make it on a Friday they could easily leave at 5:30-6am from the LA area and meet up at the next trail head out of Independence say 10am on a Saturday. Then spend one night camping with the whole group (same place were we camped last time). It will hold about 10-12 trucks depending on how many people are tenting or RTT. There are also multiple fire rings available so it would be easy enough to support 20 people. Then on Sunday head over the mountain pass and back out. People would be home by 7pm on Sunday.

As far as the areas go...we all left around the same time. Jon had to run to Icon but we all were still within an hour of each other and met up on the radio and caravanned from Coso Jct. We headed to the Alabama Hills and found a place to make camp. There are plenty of places back there and it is BLM land. We then headed to Mazourka Cyn road which is at the south end of Independence. You turn right and head east. It takes you through the old RR stop of Kearsarge and then heads north into the Inyo mountains. It heads through Santa Rita Flat and then onto Badger Flat and eventually Mazourka Peak. We visited Mazourka Peak for lunch and then went back and made camp. The next day we headed over the pass and into Papoose Flat and took a short detour through Harkless Flat (the road that had the tree in the way-winching successful). Then we eventually headed out and back into Big Pine to fill up, potty stop, and head home again.

Jon was doing the tracking and I expect will be posting the tracks very soon, if he isn't doing it while I'm typing this

As Shuly said.. here are the tracks.. I'll post up the few pics that I took as soon as I get them all uploaded.

E. Sierras - Inyo Mountains - May 20,2011 gpx file
E. Sierras - Inyo Mountains - May 21,2011 gpx file
E. Sierras - Inyo Mountains - May 22,2011 gpx file

EDIT: Here is a KMZ file that has all three days.

E. Sierras - Inyo Mountains - May 21-22,2011 kmz file

Incredible trip and views there Shuly. You have an eye for framing a picture. I'd love to get up there with my son sometime, hopefully looking at the tail end of your Runner.

On the trip note... (I hate to take this thread off topic again but...) The only "Formal" runs that we require paperwork on are those that are in the OAUSA Event Planning Section. The runs in the "Trip Planning" section within the Outdoor Adventuring Section are all "informal" with no paperwork to be had. So it's just like the 120 or any other forum you're exposed to. We are not the only group that requires paperwork on "Formal" runs either. Nearly every other group requires the same type of paperwork prior to their "Foraml" runs.The only way to lead a "Formal" trip on this site that requires paperwork is to be asked to lead one by one by DaveK, Cruiserlarry, TomS, or myself. All other runs on this site are "non-sanctioned" (aka: informal) get togethers to enjoy the great outdoors. So if you post a trip in the "Trip Planning" section that you want people to join you on then it is no different than any run you have ever put together on the 120. When we're chatting at SummerFest I can give you a list of events that nearly every other site out there runs that require the same "paperwork" or security measures we take that. Several other sites HAVE had letigious issues from their members but we (knock on wood) never have.

I'm looking forward to SummerFest and spending some time with you on the trail elsewhere as well.

The pictures look so bright and vibrant compared to my boring shots. They really seem to draw you into the scene and make you feel as though you were there.

How do you get them so clean? Were you using special filters or is it post-processing?

OLLIE wrote:...
On the trip note... (I hate to take this thread off topic again but...) The only "Formal" runs that we require paperwork on are those that are in the OAUSA Event Planning Section. The runs in the "Trip Planning" section within the Outdoor Adventuring Section are all "informal" with no paperwork to be had. So it's just like the 120 or any other forum you're exposed to. We are not the only group that requires paperwork on "Formal" runs either. Nearly every other group requires the same type of paperwork prior to their "Foraml" runs.The only way to lead a "Formal" trip on this site that requires paperwork is to be asked to lead one by one by DaveK, Cruiserlarry, TomS, or myself. All other runs on this site are "non-sanctioned" (aka: informal) get togethers to enjoy the great outdoors. So if you post a trip in the "Trip Planning" section that you want people to join you on then it is no different than any run you have ever put together on the 120. When we're chatting at SummerFest I can give you a list of events that nearly every other site out there runs that require the same "paperwork" or security measures we take that. Several other sites HAVE had letigious issues from their members but we (knock on wood) never have.

I already stated my opinion, and I don't see it changing anytime in the near future. I never said that this was the only group that wants paperwork for their formal trips and I am not contesting that issue, nor did I ask anyone to defend their position. As I already said I will keep my trip plans informal and do my planning with other groups. That doesn't mean people from OA aren't welcome...it only means the planning thread won't be on this board. Now I ask, please, no more thread hijacking...this is supposed to be a trip report and not a legal discussion. If people want to continue this discussion further, please start a separate thread. I was simply expressing my opinion and never expected this subject to go so far off topic.

sdnative wrote:The pictures look so bright and vibrant compared to my boring shots. They really seem to draw you into the scene and make you feel as though you were there.

How do you get them so clean? Were you using special filters or is it post-processing?

I'm glad you like the images. There are a few things that help when it comes to my photography. First off, I have been shooting for over 20 years now. I just did the math...Wow...20 years...geez, I can't believe it has been over 20 years; and that isn't counting when I was a kid with my first camera (it was a disc). The experience and years of practice help quite a bit. I also used to shoot professionally, but got tired of the things that for me went along with pro shooting. I really hated shooting portraits, weddings, events...etc. It paid the bills, but making money in landscapes just isn't practical unless you are dead or extremely popular. Anyway, through a long and winding road I ended up in Engineering and really enjoy what I do.

I do use filters, but generally the only filters I use are UV, Polarizer, ND...I don't generally use any superspecial filters for in camera work. Not with digital anyway. One thing to remember is that with digital vs film, with digital CCDs most images look flat, not sharp, and require some amount of post work. Traditional chemistry, film/paper, would give you those bright colors and extra saturation...think Kodachrome or Fuji Velvia. It depends on the image, but I have workflow that I run through for all of my images. The color images take 30-60 minutes per image on average, ignoring any panos or other custom things that I feel need to be done. When I am shooting BWIR (used to shoot Kodak HIE film), I used a 25A or 87 for film work and for digital work I have a modified camera. The hot mirror in front of the CCD was swapped out with glass that acts as an 87 filter. BWIR images take me a significant time to get the post work done. As with my color stuff, I like them to match my film work, but that requires 1-2 hours per image or more. BWIR require typically several layers of curves adjustments and almost all require some D&B. The only difference for most of the images is that because they are digital I don't have to waste 3-5 shots bracketing film and spend hours in the darkroom running test strips over the whole image. I guess I need to do some post on the BWIR images from the trip and post them up at some point in the future.

Really it is just years of darkroom practice and nailing down a digital workflow that I am happy with. No I won't give out my workflow