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Sat Phone

This forum is for technical questions, advice, and general communications discussions, including alternative communications devices such as CB, GMRS and FRS.
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cruiserlarry
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by cruiserlarry » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:07 am

xtatik wrote:Correct, you must be the holder of a ticket in any case. A licensed amateur radio operator may use any means necessary. Even if an unlicensed individual were to save multiple lives by illicitly utilizing ham frequencies....they would come under federal indictment. And, it is surpprising how vigorously they attack. It has happened several times in the past, and it's never pretty. The FCC flatly won't recognize them as heroes.
A simple 20 minute test and $13 bucks easily mitigates this problem.

I agree that it's best to have a license, but I disagree with the FCC's enforcement assessment - They've prosecuted virtually no one over the last 20 years for ham radio violations, with the exception of malicious interference complaints - interfering with police transmissions, etc. Even still, I believe there have been only 2 or 3 cases of actual prison time as a result - and it was after numerous blatant violations. I am not condoning non licensed folks using ham radio - but in a case of emergency, it can even be considered third party communications, and it would be very unlikely to result in prosecution - especially in a life and death situation. I'd take my chances on the legal issues after helping to save someone's life, especially now that the FCC is being run by a more reasonable, rational group of administrators...
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xtatik
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by xtatik » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:34 am

cruiserlarry wrote:
xtatik wrote:Correct, you must be the holder of a ticket in any case. A licensed amateur radio operator may use any means necessary. Even if an unlicensed individual were to save multiple lives by illicitly utilizing ham frequencies....they would come under federal indictment. And, it is surpprising how vigorously they attack. It has happened several times in the past, and it's never pretty. The FCC flatly won't recognize them as heroes.
A simple 20 minute test and $13 bucks easily mitigates this problem.

I agree that it's best to have a license, but I disagree with the FCC's enforcement assessment - They've prosecuted virtually no one over the last 20 years for ham radio violations, with the exception of malicious interference complaints - interfering with police transmissions, etc. Even still, I believe there have been only 2 or 3 cases of actual prison time as a result - and it was after numerous blatant violations. I am not condoning non licensed folks using ham radio - but in a case of emergency, it can even be considered third party communications, and it would be very unlikely to result in prosecution - especially in a life and death situation. I'd take my chances on the legal issues after helping to save someone's life, especially now that the FCC is being run by a more reasonable, rational group of administrators...
Yes, it's best to have a license............cuz, it's the law.
The FCC is actually less concerned with infractions between licensed stations and services. They will nearly always assume at first that these licensed transmissions were spurious and unintentional. They will usually warn and give a station ample opportunity to either cease transmission, repair equipment, or do whatever is necessary in order to remedy a problem. If it is determined a station is intentional interfering they will act as quickly as courts will allow. Uusally with stiff fines at first (forfeitures). They are more common than you imply in your post, but you're right in that the FCC seems more lax towards licensed operators. BTW, it only takes a few moments to intentionally create a whole lot of interference, which if you were reading cases from the Enforcement Bureau archives would justify the word "repeatedly". The most egregious "jammers" eventually are found and do jailtime. Most of these characters come and eventually go away, they are seldom caught. The few persistent ones eventually do get caught. The two or three cases you mention are just such cases, and are the only ones I'm aware of. Two of the three were at one time licensed amateurs (very sad) the most recent one includes our local favorite Gerritsen who's been jailed twice, and one unlicensed (Nakamura).
The FCC also takes a more relaxed position with the personal services (CB,FRS, Marine VHF, etc.) which for the most part, are intended for unlicensed use. Situations involving CB'ers that "splatter" into 10 metres are viewed and handled more as an abuse of the the CB service moreso than an abuse of the amateur band. This is usually due to the illegal modifications to CB radios that cause the problem. Fines levied into that community are common though less common than hams would like, especially amongst 10 meter users.
The fact that there have been few prosecutions for blatant and intentional unlicensed used of the amateur spectrum is simply because it doesn't happen often. The bands are seldom, if ever abused by unlicensed law-abiding citizens reporting emergency situations. How many unlicensed people do you know that would have a ham radio in an emergency situation?? err, actually, maybe I don't want to know. If unlicensed, it's usually done by clowns (jammers) that hit and run, and they seldom get caught. If it were to happen in a scenario like ours, you can bet names will be collected by law enforcement and emergency personnel, or by the ham that takes the initial call for help. It could even hit the local papers depending on the type of emergency and response.
If you read into my post that jailtime was eminent, perhaps I could have worded differently. But, to the extent the FCC could pursue you in this instance, they would. The maximum fine for a Section 301 (unlicensed transmission, amateur or commercial) infraction is $11k per event. Fines are rarely levied at the maximum. After an incident such as we're describing, if the FCC were to realize that this unlicensed someone had purchased a ham radio and installed it into their vehicle/vessel for the purpose of it being an emergency communications resource they'd have to act, they couldn't and wouldn't look the other way. At the time the person bought the radio there was an expectation of breaking the law..nearly an intent. Jailtime no, fine?..yes. As for it being considered third party traffic...not a chance. You know the rules, if there is no licensed operator present at the control point of the station to supervise, it's an illegal transmission.
If people were to adopt such a casual view the service, and kept ham radios for "just in case" purposes and ultimately used them during a natural disaster or other similar "just in case" scenario, they would be rendered useless. What's to stop every Californian from buying a radio in anticipation of "The Big One"? Once the event occurred, with all parties to the mess justifying its use with their own measure of what amounts to "emergency use". Calling their hubby or wifey at the office "just to make sure they're OK" would bury the bands in the same way cellphones go to diahrrea after such events.
Now, having said all this, if I were unlicensed, found myself in a situation where a life was threatened in the middle of Timbuktu, and a radio mysteriously appeared under a burning bush.........I'd use it, and I'd be willing to suffer the consequences. I think any reasonable person would/should. But, then I also know I wouldn't buy a radio if unlicensed. Why would I? for listening?....yeah right! I'd know that an event of misfortune would be the only thing keeping me from transitioning from "a listener" to an illegal transmitter. The right to use a ham radio in an emergency is a right secured by licensed hams. If I had no intentions of securing that right for myself....either because I wasn't motivated enough in that direction or maybe felt I didn't have the aptitude to pass....for our purposes, I'd pursue one of the other choices being discussed in this thread.
Randy
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cruiserlarry
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by cruiserlarry » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:10 pm

Just so we are clear, I was in no way condoning unlicensed use of amateur radio, or breaking the law.

My statement was based on the possibility of an unlicensed individual using a radio in the possession of a disabled / injured ham to acquire help. Should this situation occur, I wouldn't want the unlicensed person's first though to be of possible legal prosecution - because it virtually never happens, and because no rational agency would proceed with such a prosecution in a life and death emergency...

The best avenue of course, is to get your license and be prepared, properly, in case of emergency... ;)
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xtatik
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by xtatik » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:17 pm

cruiserlarry wrote:Just so we are clear, I was in no way condoning unlicensed use of amateur radio, or breaking the law.

My statement was based on the possibility of an unlicensed individual using a radio in the possession of a disabled / injured ham to acquire help. Should this situation occur, I wouldn't want the unlicensed person's first though to be of possible legal prosecution - because it virtually never happens, and because no rational agency would proceed with such a prosecution in a life and death emergency...

The best avenue of course, is to get your license and be prepared, properly, in case of emergency... ;)
Ok, I understand, absolutely, this would qualify as "third party traffic". The FCC works in strange ways. One of their favorite methods for reprimand is to revoke licenses. This usually follows the fines for non-compliance, failure to respond, make available for inspection...so on. But, it has happened in single event situations. And, sometimes, their actions obscure the original offense. There actually have been two incidences where individuals were fined for using amateur freq's during life-threatening emergencies. Both were marine mobile situations and the individuals used both marine SSB and amateur services without licenses for either. In adddition to the forfeitures of both money and equipment, they lost their rights to hold either license in the future. For a hard-core cruiser, not having marine SSB is like not having an arm. No weather fax, nothing.
It seems to happen most often in this group due to the remote nature of travel. It's not hard to draw parallels between what they're doing and what we do. There was an incident very recently, where a vessel lost steerage during weather in the South Pacific and made an unlicensed contact to one of the marine mobile nets (PacSea). Minimal contact was allowed by the controller and they were redirected to another vessel in the area for relay on VHF as they had no marine SSB license either. I do not know whether or not the net has or would report them. I do believe the incident is posted on their website. Whether or not the FCC takes action, usually depends on whether it gets reported or not. Most go unreported and the FCC is unaware. Once made aware, they are obligated.
Last edited by xtatik on Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Randy
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cruiserlarry
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by cruiserlarry » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:04 pm

If you can send me links to the cases you've mentioned, I like to read about the case specifics. I have searched and found very few cases of license revocation, 2 instances of jail time, and a couple of cases of fines (although it doesn't appear they were ever collected) for misuse of amateur radio by individuals over the past 10+ years. I still think the cases you have cited have more to them, so I'd like to read the rulings if they are available...
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xtatik
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Re: Sat Phone

Post by xtatik » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:33 pm

cruiserlarry wrote:If you can send me links to the cases you've mentioned, I like to read about the case specifics. I have searched and found very few cases of license revocation, 2 instances of jail time, and a couple of cases of fines (although it doesn't appear they were ever collected) for misuse of amateur radio by individuals over the past 10+ years. I still think the cases you have cited have more to them, so I'd like to read the rulings if they are available...
If I have some time over the weekend, I'll scour the EB enforcement action archives. They're in the there, problem is, I'll have to search amateur and marine subjects and there are usually multiple filings in each instance. If this is where you've been searching you already know that each needs to be opened individually. I haven't done it in a while, but I do remember it being a PITA.
Randy
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