Outdoor Adventure USA

cruiserlarry wrote:Just got my Spot last week - they offer insurance to cover the cost of an extraction for up to $100,000 for $7.94 for the year when you purchase the Spot - another no brainer, IMO...

That has been peace of mind for me since I bought mine. I'm starting to love APRS but it doesn't offer near the service that SPOT does.

OLLIE wrote:

cruiserlarry wrote:Just got my Spot last week - they offer insurance to cover the cost of an extraction for up to $100,000 for $7.94 for the year when you purchase the Spot - another no brainer, IMO...

That has been peace of mind for me since I bought mine. I'm starting to love APRS but it doesn't offer near the service that SPOT does.

APRS is great for local group location / tracking and radio to radio 2 way communication - but Spot is the shizle for safety / rescue and peace of mind for those monitoring your whereabouts. I think they have some overlap in the safety arena, but otherwise they are apples and oranges, IMO...

OLLIE wrote:

cruiserlarry wrote:Just got my Spot last week - they offer insurance to cover the cost of an extraction for up to $100,000 for $7.94 for the year when you purchase the Spot - another no brainer, IMO...

That has been peace of mind for me since I bought mine. I'm starting to love APRS but it doesn't offer near the service that SPOT does.

Try and send 2 way messages with your spot or locate fellow members of your party in the wilderness.

DaveK wrote:Try and send 2 way messages with your spot or locate fellow members of your party in the wilderness.

Basically, APRS is a great way to locate the guy in your group who has a Spot Messenger, so you can call for a helicopter extraction for only $7.95...

Both are very useful - one can save your trip, the other can save your life...

cruiserlarry wrote:

DaveK wrote:Try and send 2 way messages with your spot or locate fellow members of your party in the wilderness.

Basically, APRS is a great way to locate the guy in your group who has a Spot Messenger, so you can call for a helicopter extraction for only $7.95...

Both are very useful - one can save your trip, the other can save your life...

Be careful about placing too much reliance on the Spot. It's new and there remain some concerns about its ultimate value, especially when it comes to saving lives. Three very important things to remember are 1) the unit will not function unless you pay for the service subscription and that means that if it lapses, you are the owner of some handsome orange plastic. 2) The "911" call does not go to the same people who answer your 911 call at home (police, paramedics, fire). The call goes to the spot people who in turn forward it to someone (I don't think there is any formalized protocol or procedure as to what they do). 3) One other problem that seems to plague the Spot is the current situation with the satellites it relies on. Perfect positioning appears to be in order and Spot does not work well if there is any thing blocking its view of the satellite such as hills, vegetation etc.

Your ham radio has no renewal fees, is virtually certain to give you access to a live person who can call real 911, and has a well demonstrated history of value in emergency situations. The well prepared traveler may want to carry both a ham radio and the Spot.

For a good review of Spot, see http://www.equipped.org/SPOT_ORSummer2007.htm .

DaveK wrote:Be careful about placing too much reliance on the Spot. It's new and there remain some concerns about its ultimate value, especially when it comes to saving lives. Three very important things to remember are 1) the unit will not function unless you pay for the service subscription and that means that if it lapses, you are the owner of some handsome orange plastic. 2) The "911" call does not go to the same people who answer your 911 call at home (police, paramedics, fire). The call goes to the spot people who in turn forward it to someone (I don't think there is any formalized protocol or procedure as to what they do). 3) One other problem that seems to plague the Spot is the current situation with the satellites it relies on. Perfect positioning appears to be in order and Spot does not work well if there is any thing blocking its view of the satellite such as hills, vegetation etc.

Your ham radio has no renewal fees, is virtually certain to give you access to a live person who can call real 911, and has a well demonstrated history of value in emergency situations. The well prepared traveler may want to carry both a ham radio and the Spot.

That was my point, exactly...

Of course, if you don't subscribe, you have no service - same with the gas company, electric company, and the phone company - so be diligent.

You can test and send messages at any time to see if it is operating properly.

They have a specific protocol for 911 services, just as a cell phone company does - it's based on contacting the authorities in your location.

In the limited time the Spot system has been on-line, there have been about 50 or so rescues documented to date.

At no time would I rely or recommend anyone rely on only one method of emergency communication - but the Spot is a technology that should compliment two way communications, and it will likely work in areas where there is no UHF/VHF reception or respondents available - increasing your odds of a rescue in life-threatening situations.

And it's not expensive compared to other items utilized by most serious hobbyists.

Another tool in the toolbox, IMO...

cruiserlarry wrote:Of course, if you don't subscribe, you have no service - same with the gas company, electric company, and the phone company - so be diligent.

You can test and send messages at any time to see if it is operating properly.

They have a specific protocol for 911 services, just as a cell phone company does - it's based on contacting the authorities in your location.

In the limited time the Spot system has been on-line, there have been about 50 or so rescues documented to date.

At no time would I rely or recommend anyone rely on only one method of emergency communication - but the Spot is a technology that should compliment two way communications, and it will likely work in areas where there is no UHF/VHF reception or respondents available - increasing your odds of a rescue in life-threatening situations.

And it's not expensive compared to other items utilized by most serious hobbyists.

Another tool in the toolbox, IMO...

As you well know, with a well equipped Ham radio, there is no place on earth where communication is not possible.

Your 911 call from the Spot does not go directly to the same emergency services that normally respond to a 911 call. From the Spot cite:

if you're ever in a situation that threatens your life or safety and you have to press the "911" button, one of our Duty Officers at the GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston, Texas will be dealing with your emergency,

There is no way that the user of the Spot can verify that a message has been sent successfully and received. With a ham radio, two way communication is possible, which can be useful in not only communicating the urgency of the situation but also in making it possible to get advice on how to deal with certain emergencies. The Spot 911 is not capable of providing the nature of the emergency, a piece of information which can be vital to the type of help which is required.

These comments notwithstanding, the Spot may indeed prove to be a highly valuable piece of safety gear for the outdoor traveler. It is, at best, an adjunct to a Ham radio, not a substitute. Which is what you are saying as well.

I picked up one of these a couple weeks ago, they had a promo where if you bought the service the unit was free, I love it so far, the OK button rules, you also have a help button as well as the 911, the help button only notifies your contacts and sends them your location, this way if you are not in an emergency but just need help someone monitoring can head out and help ya, Also the tracking feature is pretty cool too, it pinpoints your position every 10 minutes so you can look at the map when ya get home and check out the trails you ran as well as others can virtually follow your path. Neat little device and pretty cheap, good addition to the preparedness items.

DaveK wrote:As you well know, with a well equipped Ham radio, there is no place on earth where communication is not possible.

Well, for a well equipped, well located HF rig, but for the majority of techs running VHF/UHF equipment, I beg to differ. I wouldn't be without it, but it doesn't work everywhere...

DaveK wrote:Your 911 call from the Spot does not go directly to the same emergency services that normally respond to a 911 call.

Sounds like what I said - it works like your cell phone, going through a central dispatch and then routed to authorities in your location.

DaveK wrote:There is no way that the user of the Spot can verify that a message has been sent successfully and received. With a ham radio, two way communication is possible, which can be useful in not only communicating the urgency of the situation but also in making it possible to get advice on how to deal with certain emergencies. The Spot 911 is not capable of providing the nature of the emergency, a piece of information which can be vital to the type of help which is required.

I am in complete agreement here - but, as I said, it's additional method of keeping in touch, or requesting help. None of the methods available are failsafe, which is the reason I think it is beneficial to have as many as possible at your disposal.

DaveK wrote:These comments notwithstanding, the Spot may indeed prove to be a highly valuable piece of safety gear for the outdoor traveler. It is, at best, an adjunct to a Ham radio, not a substitute. Which is what you are saying as well.

I think we've made our points...

Spot sucks, dont get it!