Outdoor Adventure USA

Chazz Layne wrote:On another note (perhaps slightly OT), I would have to consider vandalism/burglary a serious personal/physical threat to myself and any other persons on my property, depending on what they were doing. I'm rural... very rural.

I have even stronger feelings on this in most of the places I camp - without the protection of shelter/water/transport, Arizona's wilderness would kill. I will grant that things are different in the city, but most of this state (something like 90+%) is just like it is here (BFE). I've no doubt that this factors, at least indirectly, in our freedoms continuing to remain intact in this state.

Chazz
Sorry, somehow in the banter I missed this post. I understand how emotions would run high given your situation, but you'd still have to temper yourself and go through some requisite warning motions before pulling a trigger. Unfortunately, the laws make few, if any consideration for your situation. If you didn't properly address the individual before discharging your gun you could easily find yourself with the burden of having to prove your reasons for doing so. Property is property, and persons are persons.
Your second scenario raises more interesting legal questions. I'd be curious to know if there are precedence for this. If the loss of a vehicle or theft of water would mean certain death, a reasonable argument could be entered and I think your actions could be justified as an assault or even attempted homicide. But, I still think you'd have to forewarn of your intentions to fire if the person continues with their actions.

DaveK wrote:Actually both Randy and I are life members of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Hey, speak for yourself. Brady Bunch or NRA......IMO, they're all a bunch o' polarised, hardlining nuklhedz. I wouldn't give a bent penny to either group.

xtatik wrote:Chazz
Sorry, somehow in the banter I missed this post. I understand how emotions would run high given your situation, but you'd still have to temper yourself and go through some requisite warning motions before pulling a trigger. Unfortunately, the laws make few, if any consideration for your situation. If you didn't properly address the individual before discharging your gun you could easily find yourself with the burden of having to prove your reasons for doing so. Property is property, and persons are persons.
Your second scenario raises more interesting legal questions. I'd be curious to know if there are precedence for this. If the loss of a vehicle or theft of water would mean certain death, a reasonable argument could be entered and I think your actions could be justified as an assault or even attempted homicide. But, I still think you'd have to forewarn of your intentions to fire if the person continues with their actions.

I'd have to agree 100% with both. Warning would be given in any situation where it could be done without further endangering anyone (obviously, if a gun is being pointed by them hesitation means death). The goal for me in any such confrontation is to end the threat. If this can be done without pulling the trigger, great. If this can be done without even drawing a weapon - even better!

Even in Arizona there are rules for using deadly force.......As a Search and Rescue volunteer if I choose to cary a fire arm it MUST be concealed, I MUST have a CCW permit, I MUST take a deadly force class every year.

The requirements for me are much stricter than for a private citizen, however the private citizen MUST use deadly force within the law or he/she will go to jail.

Sadly there is no requirement in Arizona for firearm or deadly force training to carry concealed. No CCW permit is required to carry concealed.

verdesardog wrote:Sadly there is no requirement in Arizona for firearm or deadly force training to carry concealed. No CCW permit is required to carry concealed.

Obviously, the state of Arizona has sufficient faith in it's citizens to trust that they possess the requisite common sense and knowledge to understand when deadly force can be used and when it cannot. I find that refreshing, not sad.

There are just as many if not more members of the lower end of the gene pool here as any other place. Actually there are many more "cowboy" types here that would rather shoot first than ask questions.

When I was living and camping in Southern Calif I always had at least one firearm with me and probably more. I camped in some places close to the border and the drug runners are afraid of everyone they see and don't care who they hurt.

I feel if people are going to carry concealed firearms they do need proper formal training about the use of deadly force.