Outdoor Adventure USA

jgorm wrote:you guys crack me up with your seriousness. My cousins are crazy motocross desert guys (like the typical crowd). The first time i went to the desert with them they said you can't bring glass (because it breaks in the cooler while offroading) and you can't burn pallets where a vehicle could drive (because they had all had nails in their tires). So basically the guys that routinely go to the desert regulate themselves. No laws needed.

jgorm, your basic point here was mentioned by me further up the thread. It's true especially of the more seasoned offroaders (all types)...When it comes to the glass and nails, most of these rules will have no impact on them because most of them have adhered to them as unwritten rules already. Even with some of the crazies that go out there, they know that this is good for the offroad community. No one likes picking crap out of a tire or the bottoms of their feet.
An example, they have always had a quiet time from 10pm to 6am. When I was a kid, my family and others would drag our bikes, buggies out and circle the motorhomes in some remote spot. Even then, there were camp rules that said you didn't fire up a vehicle in the morning until a certain time. Additionally, the bikes were asked to walk them out a distance before doing so...Especially the 2-stroke machines.
But, in a place like Glamis you can always expect the nuklheds, and all it takes is one to wake every camp within earshot. Why should all these other responsible folks have to deal with this? With these rules, I think you can expect someone to either mention the problem to that individual at first, and if they won't comply, to jump on a quad and run to the kiosk and ask the BLM rangers to pay that guy a visit. I know I would.

cruiserlarry wrote: An act of stupidity or thoughtlessness by one person can absolutely impact the ability of another to have a safe, enjoyable experience.

Sure it can, but you are missing my point on laws to protect people from themselves. I said that nobody should be allowed to endanger anyone else, (or anyone else's property.) The helmet and seatbelt laws are perfect examples. I always were them, but think that there should be no law that says i "have to".

Lets make it illegal to jump any type of vehicle, or catch any air so nobody gets hurt. Lets make dirt bikes illegal because they are dangerous. Lets make campfires illegal because people can fall into them and get hurt. Lets make 5mph speed limits on all BLM land. Lets make helmets mandatory when you are in an offroad area, even if you are walking. Lets make hiking on steep trails illegal. It can be a slippery slope if laws such as these get passed without resistance.

As long as you have money to pay for your injuries, i could care less what kind of stupid stuff someone does that may cause an injury, and i'll also be the first to help them out if they get busted up. If some idiot wants to ride on the roof of a vehicle, ride double on a quad, ride on a trailer, etc, i could care less. If some idiot blazes thru my campsite at high speed, i'll be F'n pissed!

jgorm
Your points are well taken, and I agree with you to a point. The laws/rules need to be well reasoned and address a specific isssue. I don't think the BLM is looking to limit fun. If so, they would've shut down Glamis a long, long time ago. They are the ones providing these areas for us to enjoy. There are certain assumed liabilities placed on everyone that enters these areas. Once you leave their developed areas, their liabilities drop off drastically and the burden for safety/risk is assumed by the land user. That is why these laws/rules are needing to be so specific.

jgorm wrote: Sure it can, but you are missing my point on laws to protect people from themselves. I said that nobody should be allowed to endanger anyone else, (or anyone else's property.) The helmet and seatbelt laws are perfect examples. I always were them, but think that there should be no law that says i "have to".

I didn't miss the point - those laws are the point. If you are in an accident without a helmet or a seatbelt, THe outcome is virtually always worse, to yourself and those around you. You do impact everyone else by your choice - from immediate family members, friends, relatives, hospital workers, insurance rates, to the psychological trauma you've placed on others involved in the accident aftermath because of your decision - and all because it was your "choice". These are perfect examples of laws I feel are necessary to drive the point home that bad personal choices are more than just personal choices - you are deciding to affect my life as well, and that is not OK with me. Does everyone obey every law ? No, but more do than if there was no law, including those who might disagree with it. That is a sacrifice the general population makes in order to lessen the impact of poor personal choice on the society they live within. Consider it "decision insurance"

This post is worthless without pictures.

Regards, Steve

Here is a news article that goes with the planned rule requirements:

A full story here: http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/nudity ... esert.html

Feds target nudity at off-road recreation areas
July 10, 2010 11:00 AM
By DAVID DANELSKI, The Press-Enterprise

Tension has existed for years between party animals and families with children at popular off-road southern California desert playgrounds.
Now, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has officially banned nudity in those desert recreations areas under its jurisdiction.
While public nudity always has been an infraction subject to citations, the bureau’s action makes it a federal crime, subject to a possible $1,000 fine and or a year in jail.

SteveS wrote:Here is a news article that goes with the planned rule requirements:

A full story here: http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/nudity ... esert.html

Feds target nudity at off-road recreation areas
July 10, 2010 11:00 AM
By DAVID DANELSKI, The Press-Enterprise

Tension has existed for years between party animals and families with children at popular off-road southern California desert playgrounds.
Now, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has officially banned nudity in those desert recreations areas under its jurisdiction.
While public nudity always has been an infraction subject to citations, the bureau’s action makes it a federal crime, subject to a possible $1,000 fine and or a year in jail.

It will also be a federal crime to merely possess a glass beverage container, subject to the same $1000.00 fine and possible year in jail. A bit heavy handed, IMO.

DaveK wrote:It will also be a federal crime to merely possess a glass beverage container, subject to the same $1000.00 fine and possible year in jail. A bit heavy handed, IMO.

Of course, like all legal recourse that says "up to" or "possible", neither the fine nor the jail time is mandatory - it's just a deterrent, and makes available the option of a substantial penalty when the violation is egregious...Maximum penalties for any type of crime are rarely enforced - just read up on the Bart murder case for a current example

cruiserlarry wrote:

DaveK wrote:It will also be a federal crime to merely possess a glass beverage container, subject to the same $1000.00 fine and possible year in jail. A bit heavy handed, IMO.

Of course, like all legal recourse that says "up to" or "possible", neither the fine nor the jail time is mandatory - it's just a deterrent, and makes available the option of a substantial penalty when the violation is egregious...Maximum penalties for any type of crime are rarely enforced - just read up on the Bart murder case for a current example

Now there's some great legal advice. So, to all you law breakers out there, you can take comfort knowing that the maximum penalties are RARELY enforced. IF I were trolling for business, that is precisely what I would say. There is one more piece of good legal advice I would add to this - keep your toothbrush with you at all times.

Comedy aside, the point remains that these laws are way too heavy handed, not to mention, unnecessary.

DaveK wrote: Now there's some great legal advice. So, to all you law breakers out there, you can take comfort knowing that the maximum penalties are RARELY enforced.

I think we both agree that is precisely part of the problem - current regulations are not sufficiently enforced, so folks demand more regulations in an attempt to compensate...you end up with too many, possibly redundant regulations, and lax enforcement due to lack of resources and overzealous penalties...

And my toothbrush is ALWAYS packed.