Outdoor Adventure USA

Would anyone care to comment on the cons of setting up the camber of an FJ almost an inch beyond Toyota's recommended maximum spec?

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/s ... -chop.html

Well on my recent trip up to Icon this week The guys there taught me some cool stuff about our suspention I never knew before. There is a HUGE amount of caster adjustment on the FJ that can be used to compensate for the body mount rub, Like almost 4 inches of play!!.(and according to them you want some positive caster anyway for track), So today I bought new tires and while they were being mounted on the rims I tried out the adjustment and sure enough not even close to rubbing, It did throw the toe way out but I was getting an allignment today anyway so it was not an issue, I told the allignment tech to leave as much positive caster as possible while getting the toe and camber in spec. He did and it is awesome, I have well over an inch between my tire and the body mount now when turned. The drawback is it decreases your turning radius but it's so slight it makes no difference.
OH BTW for refrence I'm running 33x12.5 r17 Mickey thompson Baja claws

EDIT###
caster Toyota specs min2.3 max 3.3
Mine 4.1 left
4.2 right
Camber specs -0.4 to 0.6
mine 0.5 left
0.5 right
toe specs 0.00 to 0.05
mine 0.00
__________________

gon2srf wrote:Would anyone care to comment on the cons of setting up the camber of an FJ almost an inch beyond Toyota's recommended maximum spec?

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/s ... -chop.html

Well on my recent trip up to Icon this week The guys there taught me some cool stuff about our suspention I never knew before. There is a HUGE amount of caster adjustment on the FJ that can be used to compensate for the body mount rub, Like almost 4 inches of play!!.(and according to them you want some positive caster anyway for track), So today I bought new tires and while they were being mounted on the rims I tried out the adjustment and sure enough not even close to rubbing, It did throw the toe way out but I was getting an allignment today anyway so it was not an issue, I told the allignment tech to leave as much positive caster as possible while getting the toe and camber in spec. He did and it is awesome, I have well over an inch between my tire and the body mount now when turned. The drawback is it decreases your turning radius but it's so slight it makes no difference.
OH BTW for refrence I'm running 33x12.5 r17 Mickey thompson Baja claws

EDIT###
caster Toyota specs min2.3 max 3.3
Mine 4.1 left
4.2 right
Camber specs -0.4 to 0.6
mine 0.5 left
0.5 right
toe specs 0.00 to 0.05
mine 0.00
__________________

I'll be happy to comment.

Factory wheel alignment specs are designed, after much R&D, to maximize turning radius, minimize rolling resistance, increase vehicle stability at speed and while cornering, and to keep the tire as properly positioned as possible through out the suspensions entire travel range. The 3 major angles that can usually be adjusted are caster, camber, and toe-in. Caster affects the steering axis inclination -if you draw a line from upper spindle mount to lower spindle mount, it would be the relative angle of the front axle forward or rearward of that line (steering axis inclination). Rotate the axle more forward (negative caster), and the vehicle is less stable at speeds, but easier to parallel park (power steering allowed engineers to use more positive caster for stability while the power helped turn the wheel when parking). Relative caster affects the way a vehicle tracks - the vehicle will pull to the side of more negative caster. Mfgrs use this to adjust a car to track straight on crowned roads. Caster does not affect tire wear - only handling and stability. Camber is the angle inward or outward relative to the tire up/down axis. Negative caster causes the wheels to slant inward at the top, better for long travel stability, awful for tire wear. Positive caster can cause a "driving on ice skates" type of feel, and also can cause excess tire wear. Toe-in is the position of the vertical plane of the tire - whether pigeon toed (negative) or duck -footed (positive). Toe in can help with stability, creating a minimal resistance to allow for better control. Too much toe-in, or toe-out, and you'll shred your tires quickly. All of these adjustments are interrelated dynamically, and change throughout suspension travel - hence the range provided by factory specs.

So, back to the original suggestion. While I don't think you have 4" of adjustment that is usable, setting the caster more positive (using lower control arm adjustments) will keep the tire further away from the rear body mount - and cause more stress to the steering system at slower off-road speeds. Seeing how expensive the power steering system components are relative to the ease of a body mount chop, I'd avoid extreme caster changes...

Hope you're still awake....

Great explaination Larry thank you. My gut feeling told me it couldn't be a good idea and sInce I run the stock alloys, no mud guards, a 3 plus inch lift and only 33's. I have never experienced bad body mount rub and don't see any visble rub marks. Having said that, would you still recommend the chop?

Have you replied to Funjunkie about this post yet? I would like to see his reply to your post here.

Scott

Add to this that a lot of positive caster has a tendency to cause Death wobble/speedwobble or if you will a bad case of shimmying at higher speeds right after you hit a pretty good bump or pothole. Might not be all that bad with independend suspension vut with a straigh front axle a lot of caster is not a good thing

gon2srf wrote:Great explaination Larry thank you. My gut feeling told me it couldn't be a good idea and sInce I run the stock alloys, no mud guards, a 3 plus inch lift and only 33's. I have never experienced bad body mount rub and don't see any visble rub marks. Having said that, would you still recommend the chop?

Have you replied to Funjunkie about this post yet? I would like to see his reply to your post here.

Scott

I would do the body mount chop just to get it out of the way; but if you haven't had any issues with your driving so far, you are probably fine...

cruiserlarry wrote:

gon2srf wrote:Great explaination Larry thank you. My gut feeling told me it couldn't be a good idea and sInce I run the stock alloys, no mud guards, a 3 plus inch lift and only 33's. I have never experienced bad body mount rub and don't see any visble rub marks. Having said that, would you still recommend the chop?

Have you replied to Funjunkie about this post yet? I would like to see his reply to your post here.

Scott

I would do the body mount chop just to get it out of the way; but if you haven't had any issues with your driving so far, you are probably fine...

Kinda set myself up for that.....

So short answer... Nothing is free.

raYGunn wrote:So short answer... Nothing is free.

I don't get ya Jesse? There are tons of people running 35's with little body mount rub after the chop. Most damage caused by over sized tires is to the upper fender well. I don't see the huge advantage of increasing the caster and it seems like you're asking for trouble to me.

Point taken but I truly don't feel any of the squirlyness or wobble, It actually tracks dead on. I didn't think about the toll on the sterring, I may back it off a bit because I have PLENTY of room, Fjamming has been running his like mine is now for a long time now and had no issues either. I will keep things updated as to any probs I experience in the future, but so far so good and I beat the poop out of it in superstitions last weekend on the prerun and inadvertently got wayy too airborne and still no probs. We shall see. I understand skepticism and it is good, I never meant to say this is a gift from god but just another option that hasnt been looked into much at all. I have no problem being the test bunny on some things. And any skeptics on the handling are more than welcome to take my truck for a test drive.

Mike-

I'm glad it's working for you. Are you running 305's and were still rubbing after the chop or is this just an experiment?

gon2srf wrote:

raYGunn wrote:So short answer... Nothing is free.

I don't get ya Jesse? There are tons of people running 35's with little body mount rub after the chop. Most damage caused by over sized tires is to the upper fender well. I don't see the huge advantage of increasing the caster and it seems like you're asking for trouble to me.

I'm suggesting adjusting the geometry appears to be a cheaper alternative to the chop but I fact has potentially undesirable results. Thus turning a few adjustment knobs (free) vs. a chop might not be a good idea.

Are we agreeing?