Outdoor Adventure USA

I miss my home state... I am in NE right now. I went into a store called Scheel's All Sport yesterday. I walked into the firearms section and it was awesome. There were only two types of guns in gun cases. They were the really high end guns ($3,000.00 or more) and the assault rifles. It was like walking up to the fishing poles in the fishing section. Grab a gun off the rack and check it out. They obviously had trigger locks on them but wow... It's going to suck to leave America and come back to California.

I know some laws may seem over the top, but let's be realistic; if there were 40 million folks running wild in NE, they might consider putting a few more toys under lock and key, too...

After spending the day at BPS, and it's humongous gun dept., I didn't see anyone having an issue checking out any firearm they wanted to; and that included young kids swinging rifles around while mom or dad looked on from nearby... and with all the ammo out and unsealed on the shelf, it only takes one wacko to make for a bad afternoon...

99% of people are respectful, rational folks - but in CA, our 1% is a huge number, and that makes a huge difference when considering regulations of any potentially dangerous commodity.

Enjoy NE, Ollie, and welcome back to CA....

i agree with Larry, what works in NE will not work here or in other states. It is really hard to keep guns etc from all the kooks and nuts. Ever been to Southeast LA?

JJ

I respectfully disagree. So many of the Calif gun laws are just plain stupid and accomplish only one thing. They restrict the rights of the law abiding citizens. Further the studies and stats prove they are not effective in any way when it comes to reducing crime. I doubt that gang members had changes to their drive by policies when assault weapons were outlawed. I suppose they could have had an internal memo that we all missed which said," Due to the recent changes in the gun laws, all drive by shootings shall only be allowed with six shot revolvers." If the same logic, or lack thereof, was used in the offroad arena, CA would outlaw all offroading because some fool strayed off the marked trails and ran over a plant. Hence, due to one idiot, we punish the law abiding people?

Hence, we need reasonable and rational laws in all areas. These need to place the least restriction on law abiding people and be related to a legit purpose which actually accomplish something. Further, we already have laws which outlaw certain activities; we need to punish people who break these laws. I will get off the soapbox as I haven't even started and yes it is a subject near and dear to my heart.

Regards, Steve

I am in complete agreement with Larry when he said, "let's be realistic". In fact it is a tragedy that we have been living in a stupor for so long.

We have been duped into believing that laws are the secret to eliminating our problems. If this were true, the REALITY is that there would be no crime. For how many hundreds of years has it been illegal to murder, to steal, to rape, to cheat others, to kidnap, to commit crimes with guns, knives.......... REALITY = the bad guys don't obey the law.

The fatal flaw in this foolishness is the belief that bad guys will be deterred from their evil ways if we just pass another law (or in the case of California, 100's of more laws). We have been tricked into accepting the premise that by passing more laws, we have real solutions. We praise our lawmakers for the annual addition of 1000's of new rules, regulations, guidelines and laws, but the REALITY is that crime still rages on. The enormous waste of time with all of the ridiculous guns laws in California will never stop the bad guys from carrying out their evil deeds. REPEAT - bad guys don't obey the law and that means that anyone that wants a gun can find one (illegally) and there are no background checks, no fingerprints, and no waiting periods.

How naive can we be to believe that the mere passage of a law will stop the bad guys from getting guns or any other means they want to commit their evil. If you really want to get REALISTIC, the solution lies elsewhere.

Incidentally, if you failed to see anyone at BPS who had an issue with California's restrictive gun laws, it is because you never spent any time asking them how they feel about the laws. I was there, Steve was there, Frank was there and I'll bet no one ever asked us if we object or had an issue. A major part of the problem from which California suffers, is that that our esteemed legislators not only want to deny the bad guys access to firearms, but they don't trust the other 99% with firearms either.

And, by the way, there are not 40 million people in California, or anywhere in this country, who are running wild.

I'm now sorry I responded; I wasn't trying to start a pro-con gun debate; simply observing the fact that the larger the numbers of people involved, the more likely you'll have more regulations to keep things civil. This can be easily documented when you compare any small tribal government to any large country anywhere.

DaveK wrote:I am in complete agreement with Larry when he said, "let's be realistic". In fact it is a tragedy that we have been living in a stupor for so long.

We're not in a stupor; we're in a stalemate. Humans find it very difficult to compromise, regardless of topic. This leads to extremist positions gathering the most attention, and these views, on either side of an issue, are usually the most reactive, least rational, and least productive in reaching a viable solution.

DaveK wrote:We have been duped into believing that laws are the secret to eliminating our problems. If this were true, the REALITY is that there would be no crime. For how many hundreds of years has it been illegal to murder, to steal, to rape, to cheat others, to kidnap, to commit crimes with guns, knives.......... REALITY = the bad guys don't obey the law.

I agree completely. But we haven't been duped- we've been scared into it - this is the result of poor education. Laws, by themselves, do nothing to prevent crime. This does not however work as an effective argument; just because laws themselves are ineffective doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws. Regulation is only one piece of the pie - education, enforcement, consistency, and review are required to make the system work.

DaveK wrote:The fatal flaw in this foolishness is the belief that bad guys will be deterred from their evil ways if we just pass another law (or in the case of California, 100's of more laws). We have been tricked into accepting the premise that by passing more laws, we have real solutions. We praise our lawmakers for the annual addition of 1000's of new rules, regulations, guidelines and laws, but the REALITY is that crime still rages on. The enormous waste of time with all of the ridiculous guns laws in California will never stop the bad guys from carrying out their evil deeds. REPEAT - bad guys don't obey the law and that means that anyone that wants a gun can find one (illegally) and there are no background checks, no fingerprints, and no waiting periods.

I agree completely again. It is not just foolish gun laws, but 100s of foolish laws in general. Bad guys will be bad guys. This has been true for all time and will continue for all eternity. Does that suggest that we don't need laws or regulations at all - I'd say that would be foolish; just like the laws, and bad guys that break them, there are many shades of grey involved. Laws will deter some bad guys from further evil, others are not slowed at all. Eliminating all regulations, in any field, has always led to a failure of that system - how' you're 401K doing, for example ?

I am not in support of all the guns laws that are in effect - honestly, I'm sure I know less about them than most of the folks here. But, what I do know, is that the more guns that are available, the more that are available to bad guys. This is simple deductive logic, and is indisputable in fact. As the majority of gun crimes in this country are crimes involving good people in acts of passion, and not acts of evil inflicted by bad guys on good people, I think we all have more work to do to create laws that protect one's right to bear arms, while actually and effectively restricting access to those same arms by bad people - no easy solution will solve this dilemma, and much discussion is still needed, by rational, informed people, to work a fair compromise to those who choose to keep firearms, and for those who do not.

DaveK wrote:How naive can we be to believe that the mere passage of a law will stop the bad guys from getting guns or any other means they want to commit their evil. If you really want to get REALISTIC, the solution lies elsewhere.

As I've spelled out above, we are still in complete agreement. But it's not naivete, it's poor education. We only differ here in our understanding of the sources from which bad guys arm themselves. All illegal guns started out as legal guns...

DaveK wrote:Incidentally, if you failed to see anyone at BPS who had an issue with California's restrictive gun laws, it is because you never spent any time asking them how they feel about the laws.

Well, maybe I wasn't clear in my statement. I'm sure close to 100% of those trying to acquire a firearm at BPS or anywhere else would prefer no regulation for their purchase; heck, that's human nature - wanting things in the easiest possible way for yourself, no necessarily in a way that is most beneficial to the general population. What I meant was the current laws, regardless of how ridiculous some might be, didn't dissuade any gun aficionado from purchasing a firearm any more than those same laws would keep a bad guy unarmed. I heard the argument, ad nauseum, that you should be allowed to own as many guns as you's like; that, to me, is as ridiculous in a civil society as owning as many cats as you'd like (any issues with the regulations restricting animal ownership ? - no big lobby there), or any other thing that could impinge on the health, safety, or freedoms of others around you.

This is our only disagreement, in reality.

DaveK wrote:And, by the way, there are not 40 million people in California, or anywhere in this country, who are running wild.

Of course, that was an exaggeration - but you obviously haven't spent much time outdoors in Los Angeles...

Interesting discussion. I'm kinda reminded of this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGGmFj9282Q

OLLIE wrote:I miss my home state... I am in NE right now. I went into a store called Scheel's All Sport yesterday. I walked into the firearms section and it was awesome. There were only two types of guns in gun cases. They were the really high end guns ($3,000.00 or more) and the assault rifles. It was like walking up to the fishing poles in the fishing section. Grab a gun off the rack and check it out. They obviously had trigger locks on them but wow... It's going to suck to leave America and come back to California.

I had the same experience in Utah a few weeks ago. I may move to Arizona when my kids are off to college. Not just for the guns, but the business climate.

That obviously sarcastic poster erroneously assumes that criminals can read...

Those are both true and hilarious, John! Too bad the second one was presented by those @$$h0l3s, Penn and Teller.