Kenwood D710 vs. Carputer (and some other radio)

[Chazz Layne]

Need some advice, there are so many options my head hurts. When I was initially pulled into this world I was going to go the Kenwood D710 + GPS-710 route as an all-in-one answer and just leave it at that. I want APRS for the status/info beacon and coordination during group events. I also like Ollie's setup with the GPSmap, but if I have a screen on the dash anyhow...

A couple months of reading later and I am just about convinced that I want a carputer setup for other purposes (media, navigation, maps, manuals, OBD2, etc). My phone has served me well in the past for this, but I find myself wanting a larger touch screen (so the skip button is easier to hit while driving ) and the benefits of a full PC. Of course, this led me to reading up on APRS here and I can't help but think I might be better served by a different, simpler (less expensive) radio with APRS handled by the carputer instead. I also like the sound of the future APRS feature in Overland Navigator...

Right now I have NOTHING installed in my truck, and no extra equipment sitting around to use so I have the joy of starting from scratch. If you had it to do over from the beginning, and a dedicated carputer (screen built into the dash) was part of the plan, what would your ideal APRS setup look like?

[sdnative]

Talk to Frank (unwiredadventures). I believe he has done this very thing.

[NotAMog]

I have both a carputer and a TM-D700. The TM-D700 is connected to the PC through the serial cable. I use that for APRS on the PC. The PC and the TM-D700 have separate GPS receivers. I've been experimenting with different maping software on the PC. On the road I like the GPS display on the radio since it's easier to read than the one on the PC screen. The PC and TM-D700 complement each other. My recommendation would be to go with the radio first and add the computer later.

If you go with a PC and some other radio and want to run APRS unless it has a built-in TNC you will need another box (TNC) and the associated cables which can easily become a pain to manage.

[Chazz Layne]

Talk to Frank (unwiredadventures). I believe he has done this very thing.

I've been sifting through his site lately for ideas.

I have both a carputer and a TM-D700. The TM-D700 is connected to the PC through the serial cable. I use that for APRS on the PC. The PC and the TM-D700 have separate GPS receivers. I've been experimenting with different maping software on the PC. On the road I like the GPS display on the radio since it's easier to read than the one on the PC screen. The PC and TM-D700 complement each other. My recommendation would be to go with the radio first and add the computer later.

If you go with a PC and some other radio and want to run APRS unless it has a built-in TNC you will need another box (TNC) and the associated cables which can easily become a pain to manage.

Ah, thus the Kantronics stuff. So it might actually end up being more cost effective (or the same) to just get the D710 anyhow? It does match my interior better than any of the other radios...

I was hoping to get away with only one GPS receiver serving both navigation and APRS (thus the thought of letting the computer handle it all). It is just starting to seem wasteful to me... GPSr in my phone I can't use anywhere else, GPSr for the computer, GPSr for the radio, GPSr still in the factory stereo with a useless interface... The other trouble would be that the GPS-710 is no longer available (at the moment). I'm hoping to go with something small I can either roof mount or tuck out of the way, then use a dash-mounted touch screen for aprs/nav/pc/music.

[NotAMog]

Check out the Garmin GPS-18. They may be out of production but still available from vendors. There are 3 versions, one with a DB-9 and power connectors, one with a USB connector, and another with bare wires (OEM). I use the bare wire version on the Kenwood and the USB version for the computer. They are all the same basic "hockey puck" style unified GPS receiver and antenna. I think I paid around $65 each for mine without the Garmin software. I'm not sure what newer GPS units are available.

If you're not in a hurry another radio to consider is the Yaesu FTM-350. I haven't seen any information on when it will be available in the U.S. It will present some competition for the TMD-710.

[cruiserlarry]

It really isn't radio vs. computer, IMO.

I have a D710, and a computer - what the D710 does with APRS on it's own, it does even better with the full power of a computer and larger screen.

The D710 replaced my Yaesu FTM10R, Kantronics TNC, and a bunch of cables. Besides the obvious reduction in bulk, the Kenwood allows you to transmit on 2 meter while running APRS on the other band; This is a big deal, since when APRS is running, transmitting on 2 meter could damage most other radios, as they do not isolate the receive / transmission circuits when using the same band, which could reduce sensitivity or damage the radio over time.

Now, I can transmit on 2 meters, and monitor APRS stations and their movement on a computer while using it's keyboard to sent packet messages - much more functional and convenient for me...

The Kenwood isn't cheap, but it offers many features and more flexibility over time...if you are looking to set up an APRS system, I'd recommend it AND a computer...(However, I prefer my Toughbook w/GPS and bullet proof design for off-road over the carputer, though.... )

[OLLIE]

The other thing to remember when getting a computer is that the D710 is only user friendly with a serial connection. It does not do well with a serial to USB converter. So if you go with a carputer make sure it is equipped with a serial port, not just USB.

[cruiserlarry]

The other thing to remember when getting a computer is that the D710 is only user friendly with a serial connection. It does not do well with a serial to USB converter. So if you go with a carputer make sure it is equipped with a serial port, not just USB.

It has always been fascinating to me how products in the amateur radio industry, despite being highly technical, are always 5 years behind industry standards of any other electronics field. The fact that virtually no ham equipment is designed to interface with USB ports still is amazing - no to mention inconvenient, as virtually no modern computers (especially laptops, with the exception of ruggedized computers) even have 9-pin serial ports anymore...You can buy a $30 Taiwanese bluetooth module that will work with USB, but not a $600 state of the art amateur mobile transceiver....go figure

[Chazz Layne]

Check out the Garmin GPS-18.

If you're not in a hurry another radio to consider is the Yaesu FTM-350. I haven't seen any information on when it will be available in the U.S. It will present some competition for the TMD-710.

I'll check it out... would be nice to pick up a "bare wires" unit to make the cable routing easier. How does the output on a GPSr work: is this something I can split (like audio) so I can run one unit, or do they absolutely have to be separate units for radio/computer?

That Yaesu looks nice... maybe it will be available by December (next chance I'll have to install all this stuff).

I have a D710, and a computer - what the D710 does with APRS on it's own, it does even better with the full power of a computer and larger screen.

The D710 replaced my Yaesu FTM10R, Kantronics TNC, and a bunch of cables. Besides the obvious reduction in bulk, the Kenwood allows you to transmit on 2 meter while running APRS on the other band; This is a big deal, since when APRS is running, transmitting on 2 meter could damage most other radios, as they do not isolate the receive / transmission circuits when using the same band, which could reduce sensitivity or damage the radio over time.

Sold. Good radio with APRS built-in and carputer it is.

(However, I prefer my Toughbook w/GPS and bullet proof design for off-road over the carputer, though.... )

Solid-state and fanless ought to do it...

The other thing to remember when getting a computer is that the D710 is only user friendly with a serial connection. It does not do well with a serial to USB converter. So if you go with a carputer make sure it is equipped with a serial port, not just USB.

Thanks, I'll be sure to select the dual serials option (one for OBD2).

[sdnative]

the Kenwood allows you to transmit on 2 meter while running APRS on the other band; This is a big deal, since when APRS is running, transmitting on 2 meter could damage most other radios, as they do not isolate the receive / transmission circuits when using the same band, which could reduce sensitivity or damage the radio over time.

I am not following you here. Can you elaborate? I believe most if not all modern dual banders mute the sub-band while the main is transmitting. My ft-8800 works great for APRS, besided the inconvenience of having to keep the main band on APRS. When I need to transmit voice, I have to switch bands, then switch back. My TNC has a feature that waits for the radio to be not in use before transmitting. Even if it didn't, it simply means the APRS packet didn't get out.

I use it as a KISS TNC as well for messaging and mapping on the laptop in parallel with the GPS unit. I have no serial ports on my laptop, and I use a prolific chipset usb to serial converter with no issues.