Give those Hummers the trail tampon of the year award

[aw12345]

Freddy and me met up at green valley lake for a shake down on his steering revision number 1. Holcomb was fun, the rock addition at the rock garden end gets the Hammerhead fun award, more would be better, but it's a fun obstacle. Great job guys.







While heading east on Holcomb we ran in to a group of 14 Broncos that were happily enjoying the trail. Once we finished Holcomb we headed to John Bull, sure is dusty out there all ready still fun to tool along on the dirt roads.
The gate keeper had a waiting line a mile long which is ok. What was not so good is that when we got there, a group of about 20 Hummers of all varieties was trying to run this trail big mistake, they will be lucky if the finish it before day break.
Half of them had made the gate keeper and it still took several hours for the rest of them to get past it. After that some Big Bear Valley Jeepers whizzed through it then a guy with an old Blazer took a go at it. before the gate keeper either his locker or an axle shaft on his Dana 44 gave the ghost. Yet he persisted so at the gate keeper he snapped the axle shaft on the other side and had to be dragged out which took close to another hour. Once all of that was cleared out we headed up John Bull and guess what after less than 1/3 of a mile Hummer trail tampons clogging the trail. so about 3 hours later all of the ill equipped knuckleheads made it past the notch thingy took several of us to spot them along the way. After that fun they pulled out of the way and let us pass. The rest of the trail was a fun put put ride. Because we wasted so much time we did not get to run Holcomb the other way. Bummer, darn Hummer knuckle heads. I do hope they do make it of the trail today in one piece, do not think they will be back soon though.

Not to do to much Hummer bashing, but being ill prepared, not having driver skills and even worse spotter skills, does not add up to a good wheelin experience and is very frustrating to others that would like to use the same trail. Using an unsuitable vehicle does not help either. Trying to get a 6000 lbs plus whale through a trail with a defective winch, but every other Hummer do that bolted on to it, yet without lockers and struggling to get over every rock in it's path amounts to madness to me. Multiply that by 20 and that was what was happening yesterday.
I hope they all made it of the mountain without to much damage, I do know for a fact that they had to have had a very long day struggling at every little rock.
We helped spotting and dragging through some spots to try and move them along a bit, but after awhile patience does wear thin. They do let us squeeze by when they could, I do hope some of them move on or up to better suited offroad vehicles and improve their wheelin skills to enhance their experience in a more positive way. Personally I cannot see the fun in having to struggle and bash through a trail in that manner. To spend all day or more struggeling on a trail that takes about an hour to complete in a suitable offroad vehicle has to be very frustrating and humbling

[cruiserlarry]

I glad you had a good time out on the trail, but IMO, "Hummer bashing" is exactly what the tone of your report sounds like.

We all started out as beginners, and we all have hit the trails with rigs that weren't "top of the line". Does this mean that anyone who wants to attempt a difficult trail should just sit by while an experienced rock-climbers with dedicated, custom built rig run the trail instead ?

I think you have to realize you are in the top tier when it comes to equipment and experience, and most others will not be as well equipped as you are. Despite that, I think more education and encouragement would be the key to inspiring folks to understand the difficulties they will encounter, and the equipment upgrades they might need, as opposed to calling them "trail tampons".

There are plenty of large, heavy vehicles that can run difficult trails - Hummers, Unimogs, etc...and certainly driver skill plays a huge part. I just think it sounds a little snobbish to rant about folks trying to do the same thing you are doing, just because you feel their equipment and skill level isn't up to yours.

I do not have the "best" rig, and I'm not the most skilled driver. But I like to get out on the trails, and I do my best to be prepared and learn each time. I hope one day to feel as confident about my ability and vehicle as you do. I also hope if I do run into mechanical or technical problems, I am able to get assistance from someone with better skills and equipment than mine, without feeling like I was a "trail tampon"...

[aw12345]

We gave them lots of assistance, advice and help, we had a good 5 hours to do so We tried to give them a quick course in basic recovery, basic rock crawling technique and basic spotting. When just about every rock on a trail is a challenge for just about everybody in the group is it a good idea to persist in trying to finish a trail?
These folk had no idea what they got themselves into, do they have a right to run the trail absolutely, did they make a wise decision in doing so hell no. It's just not very smart to put yourself in a situation where you are in way over your head, you are a danger to others are simply not equipped or ready for the situation at hand and it does irritate the heck out of everybody behind you. 20 of these things having to be babied to one third of a mile in about 5 hours is kinda ridiculous isn't it? And that was with a lot of help of all the people waiting behind them or it would have taken a lot longer. So yeah they were trail tampons like it or not. Did we do the best we could to help them along educate them and try to have a good time while we were at it, absolutely. Should these folks learn and gain experience from this somewhat silly endeavor, I would seriously hope so. Now that is my 2 cent reply.

[aw12345]

Truthfully what should be done is make small groups. Have somebody with wheelin experience show them the ropes on an easier trail so they can work out the limitations of their vehicles and driving skill and built up their driving experience from there. I have done one beginners wheelin trip on Cleghorn a few years back.
#0 people showed up, half had no experience and the others were wheelin friends that helped with spotting and kept pretty much everybody out of trouble. Was a bit stressfull for me, but in the end everybody had a great evening and no body got in to much trouble, nothing got broken and the less experienced offroaders learned some valuable skills. In my book that is how these things ought to be done

[DaveK]

I have to agree with Larry.

Since you already know my vehicle preference, I'll make no secret that I think Hummers are very capable vehicles. Like ALL vehicles, they have their limitations. I also harbor no illusion that Hummers are as capable as yours when it comes to rock crawling. Every vehicle has its strengths and weaknesses, and one of the most important things we have worked hard to create here at OAUSA is an open acceptance of all vehicles, not just rock crawlers.

The best way I can express why I think it was wrong to engage in the "tampon" labeling is to compare it to something most members here understand - and that is the concept of "Elmering". Ham radio is largely built on the idea of the experienced helping the less experienced. The same is true when it comes to off-roading. I don't think that it encourages the "less experienced", who may not have your skills and equipment, to tag their vehicles as tampons, either because they took longer to do the trail or because they don't have your experience. In reality, this stuff just divides us and creates animosity. In all honesty, If they successfully completed the Hammers, I have to give them credit, given the limitations of their vehicles, certainly compared to yours. For that, they should be congratulated.

New people make mistakes and even if we believe that it was a mistake for this group to take the trail, I still don't think it is right to be "tampon-ing them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that only people who can zip through the trail are to be tolerated and everybody else is a tampon. If you feel the need to criticize these guys, I suspect that the mistake they made, if any, was done by the drivers, not the Hummers.

We are all supposed to be on the same side here and if we don't stand together and support each other, in keeping public lands open, it won't take much effort to defeat us. Keeping the Hammers open (and all the others trails you enjoy), will take the combined support of all of us, including the Hummer guys, to oppose the efforts to close trails. Please, no more tampon-ing.

[aw12345]

The whole thing would have been a lot more pleasurable for all of them if they
had gone through there in small groups. I have no problem with any brand of vehicle
If some experienced offroaders had been along it might have helped them a lot.
Another thing that would have been a help would have been for a few of the group to prerun the trail before they decided to do a run with a large group of in experienced drivers. You have to consider this when just about every rock on the trail becomes an obstacle that requires spotting for just about the whole group, when the somewhat more difficult obstacles become something that for just about every vehicle takes 20 tries before they even consider a strap or winching and then the winch doesn't work on about every vehicle that had a winch. Then they have to do a search for a shackle amongst themselves. To tow some of these vehicles we had to daisy chain a few together to drag the heavy beasts over rocks. So to sum it up if it takes a group more then 5 hours to complete a small part of a trail they really are trail plugs or trail tampons and it frustrates the heck out of everybody behind them. Lots of this could have been avoided by pre running the trail, so the more experienced drivers could have informed the group what to expect, secondly to tell some of the group that this is a trail that requires atleast one locker. Break the group up with people with experience in various p[laces to spot the lesser experienced ones which they very poorly executed and lastly as part of trail etiquette after to or three tries on an obstacle the strap or the winch comes in action to move things along. None of this got done, if it wasn't for some very frustrated Jeepers helping out hiking up and down the trail to help these people along it would have taken probably twice longer. So trail tampons or more politically correct, trail plugs they where. I used this nomer to draw attention to all the things this group did wrong which is something Y'all seem to ignore

[cruiserlarry]

The whole thing would have been a lot more pleasurable for all of them if they had gone through there in small groups. I have no problem with any brand of vehicle
I used this nomer to draw attention to all the things this group did wrong which is something Y'all seem to ignore

I think most of us might agree with many of the points you were trying to make, if it wasn't for the name-calling in the thread title and in the post. My problem was not really with your complaints - it was more about the way you presented them.

There are many issues you mentioned that are serious concerns - tackling a trail with under-equipped vehicle, too many vehicles at one time on a trail, lack of experience or understanding about the type of trail you are attempting, general trail courtesy if you are likely to hold up the progress of others on the same trail, etc. - and I think all deserve serious discussion to help educate and inform those who might not realize why these are concerns. But when you start name-calling, or labeling a group based on anything other than the specific behavior, IMO, you diminish the affect of any valid criticism you present.

[DaveK]

So trail tampons or more politically correct, trail plugs they where. I used this nomer to draw attention to all the things this group did wrong which is something Y'all seem to ignore

On the contrary, we are paying it serious attention, but as both Larry and I have tried to point out, it was the names you use that are the problem. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody! It serves no useful purpose to tag them as you have. The division that it creates makes us easy to pick off by the people who want to close trails and certainly does little, if anything, to avoid this type of situation in the future.

There may be no one better suited to help these guys out than you, but not by calling their vehicles tampons. If the goal really is avoiding this in the future, then a helpful hand and some friendly advise will go a lot further than giving them your award.

[aw12345]

They got plenty of helping hands and advice, some of it they took begrudgingly.
Trust me it wast all happy faces, there was plenty of snootiness and not from our part