Outdoor Adventure USA

...for apparently no reason. Here's what happened, to the best of my memory.

Officer: How we doin' tonight?

Me: Uh, good. Just working late tonight.

Officer: Working? What are you doing?

Me: I do night patrol for my company, looking for outages on signs and lights. Why did you pull me over?

Officer: Well, this area has a reputation for various criminal activities.

Me: So you've pulled me over, not for anything I've done, but because of this area's reputation?

Officer: No, I pulled you over for suspicious activity. Drivers license and registration, please.

Me: (Handing over my papers.) I'm sorry but I'm having a real hard time understand why you pulled me over. You do see what I'm driving here right? This is a very conspicuous company work vehicle with big signs on the sides. And its obvious that there's a lot of police patrolling the area. If I were doing something wrong, do you really think I'd be hanging around here?

Officer: You wouldn't be the first person doing something under the guise of working.

Me: Uh, no. I wouldn't be that kind of person at all. Look, this is what's going on here. I am a law-abiding citizen driving down a public road, minding my own business, not doing anything wrong. I shouldn't have explain my lawful business to an officer just because an area may or may not have a reputation! That's hearsay. That's you opinion, it doesn't mean anything. Now its perfectly clear to me that you had absolutely no probable cause or reasonable suspicion to pull me over tonight.

Officer: Have a good night, Mr Graham. (Hands me back my license and walks away.)

Am I missing something here? Thinking back on it, I can't help but feel angry. I guess if I wasn't so nervous I should have gotten his name and badge number. Lame!

I thought that was standard procedure on that side of the river?

And if there had been criminal activity that involved a van (very common), and the officer didn't want to explain it out of concern about alarming a potential suspect, and he let someone get away who had abducted a kid, for example, everyone would be up in arms (pun intended here).

There's no winning in this situation. The officer did not cite you for anything, or try to deceive you in any way, and detained you for what seems to me to be a couple of minutes - mostly to deal with your diatribe. No search, no citation, no arrest, no questioning - basically no harm, no foul. Of course, had you been concerned enough to take down his badge number, you could have filed a complaint; although I'm not sure for what. Was this a waste of your time ? Sure. Was it unnecessary ? Maybe. But infringement of your rights ? Hardly.

If you think that police only do this in California, then you haven't been in many states. I spent many summers driving across the country, and was needlessly (IMO) stopped, at one time or another, in virtually every state - "suspicious" being either a CA plate, long hair, late at night, early in the morning, wrong place at the wrong time, etc...

And, for what it's worth, I've had plenty of issues with the AZ highway patrol when traversing that state - it's no panacea of police politeness, and certainly no better or worse than here.

Remember, freedom is not free. (except, I guess, in AZ )

I guess I should give few more details. My biggest problem with the whole encounter was the way in which the officer spoke to me. He was rude and displayed a nasty attitude from the start. All the while with his partner making snide remarks such as, "Yeah, right.", "Whatever!", "What are you really doing out here!"

I on the other hand, was polite and calm during the stop while respectfully, yet firmly standing up for my rights. I guess its a matter of principle for me. I value the rights we have in this country, such as being able to move about freely without having to explain who we are or what we're doing to an agent of the state.

cruiserlarry wrote:If you think that police only do this in California, then you haven't been in many states. I spent many summers driving across the country, and was needlessly (IMO) stopped, at one time or another, in virtually every state - "suspicious" being either a CA plate, long hair, late at night, early in the morning, wrong place at the wrong time, etc...

I don't think that at all, Larry. However that doesn't make it right. Try driving down in Mexico. I have no problems complying when the guy with the M16 tells the "white boy" (me) to get out of the vehicle for an inspection.

BorregoWrangler wrote:I guess I should give few more details. My biggest problem with the whole encounter was the way in which the officer spoke to me. He was rude and displayed a nasty attitude from the start. All the while with his partner making snide remarks such as, "Yeah, right.", "Whatever!", "What are you really doing out here!"

There are plenty of poor officers out there - I certainly don't condone rude behavior, and don't feel you should be treated as a criminal when evidence points to the contrary.

BorregoWrangler wrote: I value the rights we have in this country, such as being able to move about freely without having to explain who we are or what we're doing to an agent of the state.

I guess my issue with this line of thinking is who the officer works for. For you, he is an "agent of the state", some mythical force who's purpose is to rid you of your freedom. I see him as my employee, someone my taxes pay for to help protect my rights, and those of my fellow citizens. Does this give him (or her) the right to be rude, or to stretch the law for his convenience ? Never - but just like with everything else in this world, there are good and bad officers. So, I don't mind being inconvenienced a little by an honest officer doing his job, and I don't feel that is a threat to my personal freedoms. However, harassment is harassment, and a rude officer should be disciplined if he steps outside his role as a peacekeeper and law-enforcement representative.

cruiserlarry wrote:I guess my issue with this line of thinking is who the officer works for. For you, he is an "agent of the state", some mythical force who's purpose is to rid you of your freedom. I see him as my employee, someone my taxes pay for to help protect my rights, and those of my fellow citizens. Does this give him (or her) the right to be rude, or to stretch the law for his convenience ? Never - but just like with everything else in this world, there are good and bad officers. So, I don't mind being inconvenienced a little by an honest officer doing his job, and I don't feel that is a threat to my personal freedoms. However, harassment is harassment, and a rude officer should be disciplined if he steps outside his role as a peacekeeper and law-enforcement representative.

Well said, Larry. I agree with you. This was just an odd incident that I felt like sharing. I actually posted this on another forum as well and it turned into an absolute train wreak. Knowing how easily people get so bent out of shape, I should have known better.

BorregoWrangler wrote:Well said, Larry. I agree with you. This was just an odd incident that I felt like sharing. I actually posted this on another forum as well and it turned into an absolute train wreak. Knowing how easily people get so bent out of shape, I should have known better.

There's nothing good about red lights in your mirror...and I wasn't trying to make light of the situation you found yourself in. A think many of us can relate to that feeling of fear, concern, and then outright frustration when you realize you were pulled over for what seems like no good reason. I commented only because I used to go on ride-a-longs with the police in several depts., and the situation can be viewed differently from the other side of the light bar.

Of course, as we both agree, there is no excuse for rude or insulting behavior, from either party involved...

I don't think you will get anywhere arguing with the police. IMHO, it's best not to talk. At least keep the talking to a minimum.

I've had my share of encounters with law enforcement, especially as a long haired (when I had hair) 16 year old with a muscle car. Stay calm, keep your hands where an officer can see them. Answer questions with a "Yes/No officer". If they ask an irrelevant question, politely decline.

John, to be blunt, they appeared to be doing their job and you were the one who was trying to escalate the situation and then complain about them. As my Pops, who was LEO, told me as a kid-be nice and respectful and keep your comments to yourself. On the street, they are in charge and arguing is just a recipe for trouble. The real power is in the courts, where they are not in charge. Having been on both sides of the situation, I think he was right and have passed the info on to my kids. Some time, I will tell you about the officer who waited outside the courthouse for my son after the ticket he wrote to my kid was dismissed and the conversation they had. Or the time my Pops, thought I had been arrested for murder. I was a witness, not a suspect. Anyway, I sure wish the surf was up.

Aloha, Steve

ssc wrote:John, to be blunt, they appeared to be doing their job and you were the one who was trying to escalate the situation and then complain about them.

Aloha, Steve

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, as I stand by my statements. Keep in mind I left out all the vulgar profanity they were using.